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What Have We Wrought?

September 16, 2004

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Commentary from Juan Cole:

Now you have a burning Bradley fighting vehicle sitting there in the street, and a crowd gathers, many of them boys, to jeer and dance. Some of the young men haul out a banner of the Tawhid and Jihad terrorist group and hang it from a barrel sticking out of the vehicle.

Alarmed that the Bradley would now be looted for weapons and ammunition (and, some reports say, "sensitive equipment"), US troops now call in helicopter gunships. They arrive, but claim they took small arms fire from the area around the burning Bradley.

Now the tragedy unfolds. The helicopters fire repeatedly on the crowd gathered around the Bradley, killing 13 persons and wounding 61. [...]

I don't know if the helicopters actually took fire from the crowd or not. It is plausible, but given that mostly civilians appear to have been struck, it wouldn't be strange if the US side tried to put the best possible face on the matter.

It would also be interesting to know what exactly was in that burning Bradley that was so important it was worth 13 lives and scores of wounded.

Posted by manystrom at September 16, 2004 02:07 AM
Comments

That's a HUMMER not a bradley in the picture

Posted by: Jeremy at September 20, 2004 06:39 PM

Gee, innocent people were killed in a WAR -- truly shocking! Much is said of the "Arab Street", and somehow I think the actions of the chopper pilots probably sent a message loud and clear to people who might otherwise have missed the message.

Posted by: TJK at September 20, 2004 07:01 PM

Thank you Jeremy, I stand corrected. I'm no expert on Military Vehicles. Also, thank you to John, who sends along this comment:

See this website to see what a Bradley Fighting Vehicle looks like:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

Posted by: Michael Nystrom at September 21, 2004 01:49 AM

Sure, TJK, innocent people get killed in war all the time. But this is not a war - remember Dubby standing on the deck of that aircraft carrier declaring, "Mission Accomplished" ? The war is over. Ha ha ha.

So if this is not a war, then what do you call it when innocent people get killed? I believe that is called murder.

The U.S. under the leadership of GW Bush is spreading lawlessness and violence over the globe. Unfortunately, that is going to come back to us.

Posted by: Jimmy at September 21, 2004 01:52 AM

Hey Jimmy, which way is Mecca? With your attitude, you'd better learn soon. The Sharea' has a definite place for people like you, and something tells me you probably won't like it very much.

Like it or not, we are in the opening stages of a war that will decide the fate of Western Civilization (Hindus, Bhuddists, and Taoists probably should pay attention too!). We can ignore it and pretend the U.N. will take care of things (like they did in Somalia, Rwanda and Sudan), or we can proactively deal with it. Nuclear-armed Islamic radicals are only a few years in the future.

WWII was a "period of lawlessness and violence over the globe" that sent my Father slogging through jungles in several sovereign countries in the Pacific Theater. There was bloodshed, atrocities, and human suffering on a scale you can't begin to imagine. So please spare us the Bush-bashing and get with the program -- before some Mullah walks up and puts a cane across your buttocks for not kneeling correctly.

Posted by: TJK at September 21, 2004 04:32 PM

Hey TJK ... So far there are US troops in Saoudi arabia, irak, afganhistan, turkey, qatar ... and others.
But no arab or islamic troop of any kind on US territory.
So ... WHo's been invading first ? Have Irakis attacked the USA ? No.

Terrorism can do little wrong. And the USA better beware China and India with their tools and mind, than arabia with its oil and terrorists ...

Islam Judaism and Christianism all agree that there is only one god. The tRagic thing is their fight one against another in complete ignorance of the other religions ... The first commandment is not to worship any idol, there is only one god. THese 3 religions agree on that...

Anyway. The danger is not military. The danger is the collapse of this market economy.
1990's collapse of managed economy (communism) ...
2000's collapse of market economy.

In historical term you'll find the 10 years period very short. They'll call it the "capitalist illusion".


Posted by: DF at September 21, 2004 04:47 PM

Thank you, DF. I fully agree - there is only one God, and we can only serve one master.

TJK - I agree with you, too, that this is the beginning stages of a war that will decide the fate of Western Civilization. Unfortunately, it does not look good for the West. Ever stop to think about where the money comes from for the U.S. to fight this war? Have you checked the national debt recently?

The only reason that the dollar floats is because Asia keeps it propped up. Japan, China and Taiwan are the three biggest buyers of U.S. Treasuries. If they decided not to show up at the auction, guess what? We will ALL be up shit crik without a paddle.

Have you checked where our oil comes from? If Saudi Arabia were to fall into the hands of the opposition and shut off the spigots, guess where we will be? Up another shit crick.

Bottom line is that the world is one big family, and the U.S. is dependent on the world for its well being. So it should stop acting like such a big bully and learn to get along nicely. Violence only begets more violence.

What is it worth to know the difference between a Bradley and a Hummer if it is you or your father or your son who is inside burning? Turn off the conservative TV and educate yourself about the root causes of violence and stop parroting what you hear from so called "leaders."

Look at where they have 'led' us in the past 4 years.

Posted by: jimmy at September 21, 2004 05:02 PM

TJK - We are indeed in the opening stages of a war that will determine the fate of western civilization. As with all great empires of the past, the western civilizations will fail in their attempt to subjugate the rest of the world and will ultimately crumble. What makes this battle different than all the battles of the past is that the western civilizations wlll blow the world up with their demise (and the opening stages of this have also been seen by the reckless use of DU - radioactive-tipped weapons, an act that will render the land they are currently fighting on deadly and worthless for billions of years).
You can choose to ignore the above facts, you can also choose to try to discredit them, but they still remain facts.

Posted by: Rico at September 21, 2004 07:44 PM

Great points Jimmy, however Chinese purchases of US debt paper are down 95% this year. They hold something like $400 billion of US Govt. bonds currently and could of course bring the US economy to its knees should they dump it. The dollar would tank and everything else with it.

The Iraqi resistance has played this quite smartly thus far by doing everything in its power to ensure that US taxpayers be stuck with 98% of the Iraq bills. Said taxpayers have now three bankrupt states to take care of besides their own, that is Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: Fritz the Cat at September 21, 2004 11:54 PM

Meanwhile, real issues in this election seasons go untouched:

http://www.depression2.tv/nwo-2/archives/000108.html

I have this uncanny feeling that I'm living back at the time of the fall of Rome. The government gives us all bread (tax cuts) and circus (the exciting 'war on terror' - live on TV), and expects the us to remain complacent. We dutifully plays our part, blaming the government while the nation goes down the tube, but taking no action or personal responsibility. Somewhere along the way, the American people have forgotten something: WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!

Posted by: Jimmy at September 22, 2004 02:48 AM

Bush was forced to raise the Federal debt ceiling by a rather whopping 1000 billion dollars (almost 60% of current annual Federal receipts) in May 2003 -
to $7384 Billion. Now, the Federal debt stands at
7350 billion. Recently Mr. Snow said that unless the debt ceiling was raised soon Uncle Sam would simply be unable to pay its bills. So Bush will most likely be forced to address this gigantic issue soon. The extremely limp Democratic opposition is pretty unlikely to do it.

The Dollar is toast and the war that was meant to prop it up is going down the drain.

Posted by: Fritz the Cat at September 22, 2004 02:53 AM

Bush was forced to raise the Federal debt ceiling by a rather whopping 1000 billion dollars (almost 60% of current annual Federal receipts) in May 2003 -
to $7384 Billion. Now, the Federal debt stands at
7350 billion. Recently Mr. Snow said that unless the debt ceiling was raised soon Uncle Sam would simply be unable to pay its bills. So Bush will most likely be forced to address this gigantic issue soon. The extremely limp Democratic opposition is pretty unlikely to do it.

The Dollar is toast and the war that was meant to prop it up is going down the drain.

Posted by: Fritz the Cat at September 22, 2004 02:53 AM

My view is simple: The Jews the Arabs the Americas are ALL TERRORISTS!

We will have peace only when we have a real religious JIHAD.

The Taliban were on the right track if you think about it. Blow up religious symbols like the 1500 year old Bhuddist stautes carved into a mountian. Boy did that get the world angry.

As long as we little kiddies blow up Bradleys this will go on forever and the bills just keep piling up.

Lets get the sheeit on the road, start bombing Mosques when 500 towel heads are kneeling on their prayer cloths..... Hey they want to meet allah, we will just help them get there faster.

Then on Saturday the arabs will send a suicide bomber into a synagouge with 500 people wearing beanie copters and yell SURPRISE!!!

My view is you should be totally safe walking the streets of Jerusalem, Baghdad, Mecca, Gaza to go get pizza or ride a bus...and be scared to death of steeping into a house of worship.

That would be a real religious JIHAD!

Posted by: DJ at September 22, 2004 04:42 AM

I feel sorry for anyone who dies in war.I wish our servicepeople could come home-soon. I will be voting for the Libertarian Party Candidates in November , for Liberty! Sept. 11 was tragic and anyone involved (SAUDI'S WERE IN THE PLANES NOT IRAQI'S) SHOULD GO TO PRISON. But I feel were in Iraq because of "OIL" not weapons of mass destruction? where are they. World demand for oil will surpass supply SOON! Bush & Kerry knows this! The election is a non issue, The coming U.S debt crisis $44 to $74 Trillion Debt treasury report, social security & Mecicare cost will Bankrupt our REPUBLIC! The 2nd Great Depression will be here within 5 to 10 years! Our Fiat Fed Dollar is collapsing and virtually worthless backed not by gold anymore but a debt-ridden Govt. Bush passed the un-patriotic patriot act so I will not vote for him or anti-gun kerry.How can americans defend themselves from terrorists or tyranny if there unarmed? ALSO there was NEVER an"ACT OF WAR FROM CONGRESS TO GO TO IRAQ"! Only our Representatives can sent the u.s.a. into war in Const. The war powers act makes any president like a KING!! I dont understand why were not getting out of iraq since we caught Saddam & the New govt is pretty much done? I believe The U.S. is not getting out of Iraq any time soon because of OIL. I love my country and servicemen but I do "not believe" we are being told the truth? Why cant people live in peace? anyway Iraq and the election will not affect americans lives as much as the coming debt Disaster and energy crisis will. Better get prepared While you still can.

Posted by: Captain Freedom at September 22, 2004 12:17 PM

Jeremy, you're wrong too. It's a Humvee.

Hummers are the trash vehicles that they market to Mr. and Mrs. Homemaker USA.

Posted by: Dock Ock at September 22, 2004 03:12 PM
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