It Ain't Over! Count the Votes!

November 03, 2004

From our friends at the Daily Kos:

Bush is currently leading in Ohio by 136,221

If there are 250,000 provisional ballots outstanding. The highest number I've seen.

And 90% of those ballots are good, as they were in 2000. That leaves 225,000 votes.

If 85% of those ballots prove to be for Kerry, about the number that Gore got in 2000. That leaves us with 191,250, giving us a lead of 55,029.

If there are only 200,000 provisionals, following the same calculation would leave us with a lead of 16,779.

If the provisional ballots are only 175,000 that leaves us with a deficit of -2,346 that will leaves us in a position to get an automatic statewide recount.

Or, to put it another way, an automatic recount is triggered by a margin of 0.25% or between 13,000 and 16,000 votes.

Posted by manystrom at November 3, 2004 04:02 PM

Your numbers for the provisional ballots outstanding are not correct. The number is far less than 200,000. If we assume (per historical measures) that 90% of those are valid, that leaves perhaps 180,000 votes to count. Note that these ballots are drawn from all counties in Ohio, not just the cities where Kerry holds a slim majority. Simple statistics tell us that the provisional votes will not deviate significanntly from the percentages seen in the votes already cast, so your assertion of 85% of them favoring Kerry is not likely. But even if Kerry wins 75%, that gives Kerry 135K additional votes, and Bush an additional 55K votes -- the result is still a win for Bush. Add to that total the thousands of military absentee ballots -- 70% for Bush -- and you see that Mr. Kerry needs to concede.

Posted by: TJK at November 3, 2004 04:53 PM

It's over!

Posted by: Rich Lancaster at November 3, 2004 05:37 PM

"America" has spoken, and they said they want George W. Bush as their leader. Or at least that's what 58 million people out of a nation of nearly 300 million who boasts 214 million men and women of voting age said.

But the real story of November 3, 2004 is the 80-90 some odd million disaffected, disillusioned Americans who could have, but didn't bother to vote at all.

If offered a valid alternative to Skull and Bonesmen Bush/Kerry, if given the opportunity to vote for an admirable leader, those 80-90 million people would have been a landslide victory for freedom.

But no... we get George the Chimp and his buddy Dick for FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!.

That's what "America" wants.

So I feel no regret in saying that today I am no longer an American, I just live here by accident.

A mistake I soon intend to remedy.

Posted by: North to the Future at November 3, 2004 08:33 PM

Trying to see into the future is like peering into a dark orb indeed. It can be truly frightening for sure when one has an idea what might be out there somewhere ahead. That is why
Lord of The Rings was so popular world wide during the late '30s. The real world was getting too scary. Notice how the movies were phenomenally successful as well recently. I wonder why.
I rented to movie 'The Killing Fields' the night
before the election. If you haven't seen it or
didn't pay attention while it was happening I suggest you rent it. It is the true story of what happened in the aftermath of John Kerry's
( misguided derailment/sabotage of the Vietnam war effort. The end result was that
murdered (didn't starve in a famine-they were all
shot and buried in mass graves) simply because
they knew how to read. That's right, just being able to read marked you for death. A local crazy
man named Pol Pot was put into power by the communinst Vietnamese government in retaliation for Cambodia's supporting us during the war.
It never would have happened if John Kerry and associated rabble had not done what they did.
He should have been able to anticipate that there
would be severe ramifications to his actions by destabilizing the entire region. He either didn't think or worse didn't care. Think about it. This man was less than half a step away
from the presidency. With judgement like that
who needs Osama bin Laden.
Think before you act!
Learn before you vote!!!
And pray that the man asking
if you can read is an
interpreter-not you executioner.

Posted by: abadon at November 3, 2004 08:47 PM

John Kerry is a lucky man today. He didn't get elected to the most powerful position in the entire world. I would be relieved. George Bush did. How lucky can you get?

There is lots of room in Canada. They don't invade other countries and they are booming. Canda is a very wealthy nation.

Posted by: Ron at November 3, 2004 10:46 PM

In the end, Kerry was the flip-flopper that Bush painted him to be. Here in Taiwan, as I left work, dejected at the outcome of the election, the last thing I saw was that they would "fight for every vote to be counted" in Ohio. By the time I got home, he had already conceded.

With a fighter like that, who needs an enemy?

Posted by: Michael Nystrom at November 4, 2004 12:57 AM

Hey Michael.

Kerry/Bush 04, it don't matter - they were going to do the same thing no matter who won. Sure there'd be some flavor differences, but nothing substantial.

As for Abadon, man you have an interesting perspective. You are saying everyone dodged the bullet when Kerry lost because after fighting in the Vietnam war he chose to demonstrate against the war that resulted in the death of 3 million Cambodian's due to the US pulling out based on public pressure.

Well that might feasibly be the case, it's a massive stretch as an argument, but at least I can follow your logic (but only if I sit in a vacuum).

Because.....using the same logic what on earth can be the reason for wanting Bush, who dodged service in the war completely and hid in Alabama doing cocaine and partying during the war???

I guess you can say Bush never flip-flopped on the Vietnam war, he was ALL FOR IT - - but only if he didn't have to fight it!

Now who is a better human being here?

Cheers Rich

Posted by: Rich Lancaster at November 4, 2004 01:12 AM

I'm sorry to contradict but the real story is :
The US and the Vietnamese kept using cambodia's soil as a battle ground.
The red khmers came to power first off because the USA supported the fascist leader Long Nol and favored his coup against King Sihanouk.He obeyed to any orders of the USA.
This is what bolstered the force of the Khmers.

And those who ended the massacres where precisely the vietnamese, not the USA. In 1978 they invaded cambodia and restored peace.

Above all, there are still people dying in vietnam from all the poison used by the US bombers to defoliate, destroy the vegetation.
Facing the USA vietnamese died by the millions.

What was wrong with their desire to rule themselves ?

So all in all, those who ended the vietnam war, stopped the immoral killing of brave vietnamese seeking to rule their country.
The error was to let the Khmers come to power, this was caused by not sufficiently backing an unpopular leader : Long Nol, undemocratic ally of the USA. Fortunately, the vietnamese were able to put an end to the massacres.
20 years later King sihanouk came back to power as a moderate if the USA had not overthrowned him or had backed him sooner, the khmers would not have come to power.
So if the USA had stayed, there

Posted by: DF at November 4, 2004 01:41 PM

As many of you know, I am very much skepital about the state of our economy. Everything in the basics, points to a very painful if not fatal time ahead. But, let me pose this question. What if they have more tricks up their sleeve, to keep this economy floating. Was thinking about this allot over the past few days. Why on God's green earth would either of them want this posistion. They both have to know the real score, and if you follow the logical path of things where they end. And I finally had my answer, as usual follow the money or oil and you will find your answer. A few things obviously that they are going to do, is to get Social Security money into the market. This will result in a possible huge boom for the bottom lines of politically connected companies. Can you image the amounts of money that could be pumped into the system that way. The amount of fraud and manipulation are to many to count if they pursue this angle. And then there was Bush's short attempt to get over 2 million illegal's to be made legal citizen's. Follow this logic. They have steadily weakened the employees hand for well over 20 years, through monetary debasement, complete destruction of the Health care funding mechanism's. Basically stagnant wages vrs the amount of under reported inflation. Etc, etc. What I think this was a setup for, is not just the shipping of our jobs elsewhere, but it was an attempt to make our markets more Mexican friendly. The only way the baby boom generation gets to retire is for shit loads of non-American's to become American tax payers. Suck the young and able from our southern neighbors, get them up here to start paying into our system. Again this could keep things afloat for a very long time.

So my question is this, could it be that we are all right and wrong at the same time. We are right to think that this economy and country should be flying not just floating along. We are right to want to have a country that is a creditor nation, not a bunch of debtors who relies on accounting gimicks to get by. But we may be very wrong in how long they can continue to keep 80 percent of the population fooled. Because in reality the only way things will fall apart is when two things happen at approx the same time. We go bankrupt(which has already happened), and when enough people either here or overseas, wakes up to the fact that we are bankrupt. Until that happens the 80 percent will just eat it up, an continue slogging along....

Posted by: feelingWeird at November 4, 2004 02:32 PM

North to the Future -- AMF!

BTW, the Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand governments have all issued notices stating that unlike the U.S., they actually enforce their immigration laws. Consequently, disaffected souls will have to put their names on an immigration list, and may have to wait as long as three years before their case is considered.

Posted by: TJK at November 4, 2004 04:01 PM

Feelingweird please note:

THERE IS NO SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND! It is an accounting fiction, and your worries that the government will somehow steal money from SS are unfounded.

The current U.S. Social Security system is a Ponzi scheme, so there is no way to "save" it. Bush's limited privatization proposal makes sense, but IMO, it doesn't go far enough. Look at Singapore's system to see how a fiscally responsible retirement plan is implemented.

Posted by: TJK at November 4, 2004 04:08 PM

Fact: People need to eat, wear clothes, have homes, and maybe a means to produce the food they eat, i.e. land. Fact is, they must work to have a means to have all that they have.

The markets will never really 'crash'. It is just a re-arrangement of what segment of an economy is 'booming'. F. W. Woolworth was 158 dollars per share in October of 1929. On October 30, 1929, the day after the crash, Woolworth was still 158 dollars per share. People were going to have to go to Woolworth's, regardless of the economic plight of the stock market. Woolworth's is no longer listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

There could be a depression coming though. It's not my fault.

I've been told that during 'Dirty Thirties', grasshoppers filled the skies on the Great Plains. People didn't have any money... period. My grandfather kept a five dollar gold piece after gold became illegal to own. He was worried he may have been discovered like a Christian living among Romans. He farmed, gardened and got buy with all of the livestock. The windmill pumped water from the well next to the horse barn. It was a rough row to hoe back then before tractors and other farm machinery, other than steam powered tractors for threshers, a third of the crop was for the livestock.

If you were a farmer or a wage earner during the Depression, it was a blessing.

I don't know about you, but I prefer home to homeless, job as opposed to jobless, fed as opposed to hungry... peace instead of war... we don't know how lucky we are... just so you know... not everybody gets rich... some fortunes wither.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Posted by: Ron at November 4, 2004 04:40 PM


I am not saying that anything Bush will do can save SS. What I am saying is that this will be the next deception. First it was the Tech Bubble then housing, and now what is next. Taking the current earnings of current workers and split it to cover the ever increasing amounts needed for current retirees and the other part to push up the markets and keep up the appearence of prosperity, until that is busted then they can move on to else where. I don't delude myself into thinking the SS will ever be there for us, even if Bush were to create his so called SS saving accounts. We are all paying for our current credit cards with ever more credit cards. The system is unsustainable. My point is about the timing and the resourcefullness of our govenment overseers. They could use the gimmicks I mentioned above to keep it afloat for quite a bit longer. Point I'm making is to remember that we are right, it just might not happen as soon as most of us think. And I think RON makes a great point about crashes. People in the 30's learned a hard hard leason, but others didn't have to learn that lesson, because that was the way they lived anyways. It's the one's with their heads up their asses that will have a rude awakening.

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 4, 2004 07:29 PM

George Soros, fronting for the European financial elite (aka Rothchilde combine) bankrolled the dump Bush camp. The American Financial elite (read banksters) supported George Bush.

The American people considered the choices and chose supervision by American Banks instead of European Banks.

There is no way Sen. Kerry could have been unaware that an anti-military pro Socialist campaign would be rejected by the American People. We are entitled to assume Kerry deliberately threw the campaign so Bush will be left in office and together with his partisans will be blamed for the emerging depression.

It is reasonable to assume Republicans will become very scarce after the next congressional election and extinct for at least 50 years after the next presidential election just as they did after the 1929 depression began. The democrats will blame the Republicans for the depression and however unfair that is the blame will stick.

Live with it!

Posted by: paoniaboy at November 4, 2004 09:46 PM

It must be something in the water in the red states...

I suggest Operation Rock the Voter - well-meaning Guardian readers
volunteer to visit America, and are assigned a single Bush voter, who they then shake violently and slap
around a bit, and point at any given 5 second video clip of Bush and scream, "Look! He's a fucking moron!
Can't you see that? Everyone else on the bloody planet can, what the hell is wrong with you?"
Followed by some more violent shaking."
--posted by TEye on Guardian Talk

Posted by: rock the voter at November 5, 2004 02:33 AM

Until this week, the world thought Americans were civilized, but had a psychotic leader. Now we realise that more than half of you support the psychotic leader.

The US dollar will tank as the world pulls their wealth out of the US stock market. No one wants to support a bully.

Many of the people I know are dumping US stocks as we speak because of the election.

It's a country out of control. It invaded the sovereign nation of Iraq to world condemnation and murdered 100,000 people so it could steal their oil and prop up the PetroDollar.

What country will it invade next? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Israel? North Korea?

The US is the world's biggest threat to peace and the sponsor of most of the freedom fighters / terrorists (they are the same people).

All so Bechtel (Rumsfeld) and Halliburton (Cheney) and Carlyle (the Bin Laden family, thank you) can get rich?

By the way, when they stop counting your votes, you no longer live in a democracy.

When the police (homeland security) report to the president, you live in a "police state".

Who is supposed to arrest the president if he commits a criminal act?

And I've got news for you, 911 was an inside job.

Osama Bin Laden was a CIA agent and he died of kidney failure two years ago.

The Bin Ladens and Bushes are friends and they are laughing at you.

Think about it.

Posted by: end at November 5, 2004 02:46 AM

If foreign nations think that more than half of Americans voted for G.W. Bush then they didn't bother to read my post.

Barely 1/5th of Americans voted for Shrub to hold the highest office in the world.

The shame is that most our own citizens don't know how badly they are being bamboozled and manipulated. Freedom and Democracy is a farce.

Think about that before you go screwing the detonators onto the nose cones of missiles and RPG's... or filling wine bottles with pretrol and stuffing dirty rags down their necks. Think about that before you sharpen a butcher's knife on a rock and use it to cut into someone's living throat. Think about that before you cast judgement on the 4/5ths of the Americans who have been conned by their own government.

We're trying... okay? But it's hard when 1% of the population own 99% of the wealth. Even a 4/5th majority can hardly put a dent into that overwhelming imbalance of power. But we're trying...

It's called empathy -- look it up.

Posted by: North to the Future at November 5, 2004 02:30 PM

I have empathy - how do I help?

The vote is a fraud. You've been diebolded - exit polls are only wrong in states where you can't audit the vote.

- refuse to go to Iraq
- protest the authenticity of Bush as president

Kerry is skull and bones and he threw the election. It should have been Dean.

Tell everyone you know the vote was rigged.

Read my link and think about it. The world believed Americans were good, but now that the psychotic one is in again, they are having second doubts.

Learn from history.

I know a lot of people with a lot of money who want to invest in the US as it was a few years ago. The current US scares most of the world.

US Occupied Iraq is first - who will be invaded next? Mexico? Canada?

How does this idea of taking over the whole world in the name of the US flag improve your standard of living?

How many kids get drafted and killed so your leaders can get rich?

Do you think Bush, Rumsfeld or Cheney would think of moving with their secret offshore billions when the shit hits the fan? They aren't loyal Americans.

If you accept the shrub vote now, you will never get to vote again.

Read my link on the third Reich and seriously compare it to your own situation.

Posted by: end at November 6, 2004 03:57 AM

Count the Votes ? Why? It does not matter.Think the coming 2ND GREAT DEPRESSION does matter. If Kerry won or Bush our government will not change their overspending, borrowing evil ways. I have voted for the Libertarian {liberty} party presidential candidates since 1988 and they did not win. The Democrat voters are sore losers. I also believe many americans are too trusting and believe the "lies" and "fake promises" that come out of our 2 major parties politicians mouths.How do you know a politician is lying when theyre lips move!!! average americans are asleep to the serious issues facing us soon.

#1 The 2004 Treasury Report stated the U.S.A. will owe $44 TRILLION Dollars when the baby boomers start retiring by 2010 and recieve social security checks and medicare costs will bankrupt our govt. yet most americans "IGNORED" the warning. Ive paid 30 years into S.S. yet I-we will never see our money. Kerry and Bush lie that s.s. can be saved. It cannot. THE
prescription drug benefit lie will cost more than was estimated and bring our republic to bankruptcy sooner. Dont believe the mainstream press either or the politicians lies.

#2 our currency is collapsing. Cant you see that our Medium of exchange $$ is virtually worthless today! want proof? Look up Federal reserve consumer price index "calculator". since we got off gold standard, and silver coins in 1964 our dollar has devalued to .16 cents today in 2004. it takes 6.04 $ to buy the same goods and services today it did in 1964. thats why cars cost $30,000 to $50,000 plus and homes are overpriced. americans have to borrow to buy small items today when in 1964 people bought things outright. Our govt is bankrupt right now hitting its debt ceiling of $7.4 Trilion so when they cannot borrow any more "remember" our Paper dollar is "NOT BACKED BY GOLD ANYMORE" no its backed by a bankrupt govt. & Lies! Gee why didnt Bush or Kerry talk about our collapsing $?

#3 Picture something "made in america"? hard isnt it!!! since everything is Made in Communist CHINA or central america , or europe,asia, etc will matter. Can you see americans supporting their families without a JOB?? no food, clothing shelter? sounds scary, It is. The 2 major Parties have over regulated and overtaxed businesses in america so business moved overseas

#4 Picture going to work, school, food store,etc without Gasoline,& OIL!you wont! well thats whats coming I lived thru 1970's oil crisis and saw Gas go from .30 cents a gallon to $1.40 a gallon and gas stations closed from shortages, also rationing odd-even days. I do believe govt will reinstate the 55 mph speed limits again to save gas. americans are asleep again and do not realize OIL is Finite and will run out someday. especially sweet crude for gasoline. The supply-demand issue is important, everyone in the world , china , india, etc wants a car, electricity, plastics, etc. sorry but theres not enough Oil to go around. New well discoveries have Peaked & are in decline. Soon demand will surpass supply and the global economy will be seriously HURT! Man is using up earths resources like theres no tomorrow & no worries. like easter island chopping down all of its trees were burning up all of our Oil. So in 5 to 10 then 20 years the price of energy will go up & skyrocket. soon we will think $2 dollars a gallon or $55 dollars a barrel is cheap when were paying $10 a gallon or $200 dollars a barrel. Where were Bush and Kerry talking about coming shortages, or real alternatives to oil because you cant make plastics out of hydrogen. Biodiesel means growing more corn-oil than is humanly possible. people have to eat some of it also the acres of farmland is prohibitive , excessive. Sadly the earth is overpopulated and the oil age grew, & fed us but"THE OIL AGE IS OVER" yet the average citizen is oblivious, ignorant to the facts. The U.S. economy suffered in 1970's oil crisis and soon we will live thru a 2nd GREAT DEPRESSION MUCH WORSE THAN 30's I hope and pray that our republic and our citizens somehow live peacefully and survive.
I hope our FREEDOM , & LIBERTY survives also.
So you can see Kerry and Bush do "not" talk about the REAL ISSUES that will affect our Families and our LIVES!! BETTER PREPARE "NOW" TO FEED YOUR FAMILIES BECAUES TIME IS SHORT. Good luck!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 7, 2004 01:03 AM

Oh yhea I forgot to mention the Airline Industry. The Airlines are the First signs of Energy costs skyrocketing and affecting the Bottom line-profit loss. Peak Oil - should really be called the "END OF CHEAP OIL & ENERGY". The U.S. automakers will lose money next thru reduced sales because of higher gasoline,energy costs.The autmakers will have to stop paying their retirement pensions because of loss in profits. Get ready for higher electric Bills, Gasoline Bills. The world - people will survive the coming "WORLD DEPRESSION" energy , Debt crisis, but I do think it will be survival of the fittest.People are going to have to learn to do without many things they take for granted today. Just the basics will be top priority. Government cannot save you or FEED you this time. WHY? because they will be bankrupt.They are now like 1995 when they had to close Govt parks and museums ,Govt services, etc. I remember in 95 when govt hit its debt ceiling I tried to go to Nat park but it was closed. Tax revenues each year are not ewnough to pay govt everyday costs so they borrow each year. so No more Cell phones, DVDs , no extra money for entertainment, no 2nd car,etc. People will be lucky if they have enough money for the basics , Rent-mortgage (better if you own a smaller home outright) Clothing better get a sewing kit & machine with foot pedal power, FOOD will become #1 and food stores will run low of things when our economy falters and 18 wheelers cost too much to ship food to stores when fuel becomes excessively expensive. Think about it!

Anyway Im sick and tired of Kerry , Bush and some americans calling this country a DEMOCRACY ??????? bECAUSE ITS "NOT" ITS A REPUBLIC. We elect our officials Democratically but thank god were not a Democracy . want proof? Recite the pledge of alliegance to yourself! "And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands". A lynch Mob is a democracy and the majority is not allways right. In america we have a Bill of Rights & sometimes the right of the "individual" outweigh the majority rule sometimes. I will never vote for the Kerry- Democrat Party because they think citizens should not be able to own GUNS .Guns are your natural right , your LIBERTY teeth, your life preserver. Too bad the indians had not had more guns or too bad hitler banned guns then the jews could have kicked nazi ass.I voted for Mike Badnaric Libertarian Party for liberty.

anyway this website is good in that It warns others that a new future GREAT DEPRESSION IS COMING. Because it is. and it took both democrats and republican politicians to bankrupt it. The bubble burst under Clintons watch Jan. 2000 he was president for 1 year after that. and Bush a conservative?? what a joke-lie he has spent more money than any other president in history. conserve means spend less. Congress?? what a joke democrat and republican senators and representatives in Feb. 2004 voted themselves a "PAY RAISE" when were at war in Iraq and millions of americans had lost their jobs due to bubble bursting and 9/11. I guess $105,000 a year is not enough to live on?? 80% of most americans make $50,000 a year or less. How dare kerry a senator and all other congressmen vote themselves a PAY RAISE!

so if you want to "rock the vote" stop voting for the same old 2 party liars. Ihe 2 major parties are bankrupting america. There are still a lot of americans like myself that believe in liberty and freedom. I feel its too late to save our republic,country from bankruptcy but citizens from other countries are fooling themselves If they think they will avoid living thru a Great depression. Remember its a Global economy today. most countries currencies are Paper Fiat money or worthless paper, and most other governments are debt ridden just like our govt.!!! thats why I try to warn my fellow citizens to prepare because the 2nd GREAT DEPRESSION could occur by 2005 and definately by 2010 . Usually the 1st year of a presidency is bad economically. america has a lot of baloon payments- bills coming due within 5 years, the wars costs, the trade deficit, the old national debt and its interest payment, and increased energy costs will be way too much for our republic to handle all at once.Now is not the time to get into debt many world citizens will lose their jobs. Weve had it good for too long. Get ready to do without things you dont need to survive. Fresh water will also become important so hope for the best but prepare for the worst good luck! ,Let Freedom Ring.

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 7, 2004 06:59 PM

As an American whose lived overseas for the past 11 years (and one who gets all the major cable and TV news networks). I found it interesting how many people used the term "flip-flop" for John Kerry. Now I'm not saying he was or was not indecisive, it's just so obvious to me that people used the term because that's what the media gave them. I saw interviews with Americans on the farm, in the street, at work, at home, and they all used "flip-flop". It was like they were all brainwashed to use the same term. For the love of God people turn off Fox News!

Posted by: Looking In at November 8, 2004 01:01 AM

Thank you to Looking In - you are absolutely correct. The media is a master at manipulation - few people think for themselves, they just look around at what others are doing and saying and do the same.

Posted by: Michael Nystrom at November 8, 2004 08:32 AM

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