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Memo on the Fed

November 22, 2004

Memo:

To: SSU Students
From: Jude Wanniski
Re: The Federal Reserve

Everyone talks about “the Fed” and practically everyone in the world knows the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors is Alan Greenspan. But very, very few people know what it does, what it can do and what it can’t do. Today’s lesson is prompted by the remarks Greenspan made Friday at a banking conference in Frankfurt. Here is the lead of the NYTimes account today:

Alan Greenspan came to the home of the euro on Friday and suggested that the relentless decline of the dollar might well continue, offering little relief to those here who worry that the United States is seeking to gain a competitive advantage for its industries from a weaker currency. In a speech to a banking congress here, Mr. Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, said that ballooning foreign borrowing on the part of the United States poses a future risk to the dollar`s value. He said that foreign investors, who help finance the large American trade and budget deficits by buying Treasury securities and other dollar-denominated assets, would eventually resist lending more money to the United States, causing the dollar to fall further.

When this news hit the wires Friday, the Dow Jones Industrials lost 115
points, the dollar fell sharply against the euro and the Japanese yen, the bond market sank, and the price of gold jumped to $448, up $5 an ounce. Nice job, Alan.

What’s going on here? First of all, the Federal Reserve is the only
institution that now has the power to keep the U.S. dollar from losing its purchasing power relative to both foreign exchange and to gold. Popular opinion believes the Fed can “stimulate” the economy by lowering interest rates and that it can slow the economy by raising interest rates. Ask almost any economist and they will say that is so, but that isn’t so. The Fed only has the power to damage the economy by putting more money into the economy than the economy needs or wants or by putting less money into the economy than it needs. When the Fed opens for business on Monday it could keep the price of gold constant at $448, its close on Friday. It would do so by ordering the New York “desk” to sell U.S. bonds from its portfolio to the banks that are authorized to transact with the Fed in this manner, but only if the price of gold trades higher than $448. If gold trades lower than $448, the desk would know enough to buy bonds from the authorized banks, withdrawing “money” from general use and extinguishing it.

If this were Fed policy, there would be no inflation and no deflation, and the dollar would not weaken against foreign currencies (unless foreign governments made the mistake of not creating enough money to keep their currencies stable against gold). Greenspan could go back to Frankfurt and tell the bankers not to worry, the dollar would not weaken further and that it would be safe to buy U.S. government bonds. As it is, he did not do the American economy any favors on Friday. He essentially advised the world NOT to buy U.S. government bonds because they will suffer capital losses when they wish to sell the bonds, getting back dollars that are not worth as much as they are now. Nor did Greenspan do any favors for American taxpayers. If interest rates are going to go up and up, the U.S. national debt, now $7.5 trillion, will have to be refinanced at the higher rates, and the budget deficit will climb accordingly.

It sounds crazy, doesn’t it? Why does Greenspan do it? And get a round of applause from all the major newspapers?

The fact is, SSU students, is that we live in a demand-side world, and in a demand-side world the Fed can stimulate the economy by lowering interest rates and weaken it by raising them. In a supply-side world, if the Fed does not fix the price of gold at an optimum rate, it can only make mistakes that show up as a higher gold price or a lower price. There are certainly times that feel as if the Fed is stimulating the economy, but that is always because it has been mistakenly starving the economy of money (deflation) and then errs is the other direction by giving it more than it is asking for.

In December 1996, I began warning Greenspan that the decline in the gold price from $380 oz to $360 indicated a deflation was beginning. The economy was asking for more money and it was not being supplied. He did nothing about it and all over the world people who owed money in dollars began going bankrupt at a greater rate, having to pay creditors with more expensive dollars. At first Greenspan was cheered because prices of oil and other commodities were falling. By January 2001, when President Bush took over from President Clinton, the deflation had spread. With the gold price down to $265 oz., businesses that still had to meet payrolls at higher wages and could not raise prices to cover the costs had to live without profits and hope for a quick recovery. Or, they went out of business, with their workers joining the ranks of the unemployed.

With all this bad news showing up, here came Greenspan to the rescue,
lowering interest rates. The Fed hacked away until the federal funds rate (which banks use to lend to each other) dropped to 1% in 2003, the lowest it had been since 1958. Meanwhile, the gold price had begun to climb after 9-11, which caused a decline in the demand for dollars. Because the Fed paid no attention to the rising gold price, it did not realize the deflation was ending. It thus did nothing to keep gold from rising, which was a good thing, although it gave the appearance to demand-siders that the lower fed funds rate was doing the trick. That it was “stimulating” the economy.

* * * * *

Prior to the Great Depression of the 1930s, nobody thought of the Fed as an institution that could or should “stimulate” the national economy, or slow it down. It was only supposed to manage the gold standard, the job it was given upon its creation by Congress in 1913. The price of gold was $20.67 oz., which it had been for the previous century except for the “greenback” years of the Civil War. Prior to 1913, the U.S. Treasury kept the gold price at that rate, issuing new paper dollars when the private banks asked for them in exchange for gold. If dollars became unwanted and in oversupply, they would come back to the banks, which in turn could turn them back to the Treasury for gold. The sole purpose of “monetary policy” was to maintain the dollar at that fixed exchange rate with gold. It was a classical, supply-side world.

The Crash of 1929 and the Great Depression that followed turned that world upside-down. The Crash was caused by the unexpected, anticipated passage of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 and the worldwide Depression unfolded as countries retaliated with their own higher tariffs, currency devaluations and higher taxes. Because it was not understood at the time why the tariff act had caused the Crash (it was not until 1977 that I made that discovery), conventional wisdom eventually converged on the Fed and its management of the gold standard. The Fed was only doing what it was supposed to do. The demand for dollars collapsed in 1930-32 as the tariff took effect and the Hoover administration raised the income tax to balance the budget. Needing less money as a result of the contraction meant roughly one-third of the money vanished in the bankruptcies. The Fed could not replace it because it was no longer needed, which meant every time it issued dollars, their holders would ask for gold.

This led to the idea that the gold standard was holding back recovery!
President Franklin Roosevelt decided to try the idea that with nominal
interest rates being charged by the banks as low as they could get, the
dollar could be made cheaper by devaluing it against gold. So he simply
announced a change in the exchange rate, pushing gold to $35 from $20.67. Sure enough, there was a little immediate inflation, bringing relief to debtors at the expense of creditors, but the Depression only got worse. The little inflation had made the federal income tax even more onerous than it had become upon the repeated increases by Hoover and Roosevelt in their budget-balancing modes.

It was after WWII the idea took hold that the Fed could stimulate the
economy by printing more money actually adding “liquidity” to their
member banks that could become “money” once it was loaned and became bank deposits. The Employment Act of 1946, passed out of fear that the
Depression would reappear with the end of wartime spending, committed the government to manage the economy as never before during its supply-side history. In this new demand-side world popularized by the British
economist John Maynard Keynes, monetary policy as well as fiscal policy
would be dedicated to keeping the unemployment rate down and economic
growth at the necessary levels. In a sense, all the troubles the U.S. has had with economic growth and unemployment over the last half century can be traced to the Employment Act of 1946.

The fact is, the Federal Government cannot stimulate the economy with
either monetary or fiscal policy. It can only make monetary or fiscal
errors that cause deflations and recessions or the combination of the two known as “stagflation.” Or it can cause the economy to improve by removing barriers that it had put into place in the mistaken belief that it was doing good.

Which brings us back to Chairman Greenspan’s Friday comments in Frankfurt that shook the financial and gold markets. Remember since June 30 that he and his fellow Fed governors have been raising that 1% interest rate “at a measured pace” to where it now stands at 2%, on the theory that it will eventually reach a point where it will strike a balance between inflation and employment, not too much or too little of either. That’s the Employment Act of 1946 you hear in the background. But what has happened during this quest for this rate of “balance”? Instead of holding back an inflation that might occur if too many people went to work, all the signs of inflation are increasing!!! The dollar is getting weaker against foreign currencies, the price of gold is soaring, and employment is lagging. The stock market doesn’t look too bad, having recovered somewhat from earlier trials and tribulations. But that’s only if you count the broad indices in nominal dollars. If you convert them to gold, they are not recovered at all!!

So what is a poor Fed chairman to do, but pass the buck? It is the trade deficit and the budget deficit that are causing all these bad things to happen, not the Fed’s policy. And hold onto your hats, folks. If this is true, then the Fed will have to raise rates much higher than they are now, and hope that mythical interest rate will be found sometime soon. But what if he’s going in the wrong direction? Remember the definition of a fanatic… someone who doubles his speed when he loses sight of his goal?

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Posted by manystrom at November 22, 2004 01:55 PM
Comments

I hate to agree with the prospects on the dollar, but I may have to agree. I have not been watching things as long as many of you apparently have. But, I have been watching long enough to know the depths of their resources(them being the central bankers and their govenment enablers). I doubt that they can stem the rise in gold(maybe keep it from rising so fast that it causes a stir), they will try and keep the rise in gold orderly so as not to induce panic. With the talking head on TV blathering on about how great this economy is, they can convice the general populace that all is well. The dollar on the other hand is well within their control. As one poster said earlier, the fix is in. You can't tell me that the leaders of the industrialized world arent' working overtime, try to value each others money, to keep the cherade going for another fiscal year. The only wild card in any of this is China. If they don't unpeg their currency from ours, they will take us both into the pits of hell. This may be their ultimate goal. The Chinese ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS, they never were and they never will be. They are working with Iran and Russia to break up our worldwide hegemony(I wouldn't be surprised to find out that France is in there to). If there is a concerted effort by China to cash in it's dollar position it would be devastating to both of us, but much more so to us. The bulk of the Chinese citizenry live in what we call abstract poverty. They will fare much better, than us. Our definition of poverty according to the latest census, is having only 1 car, AC, and 2 TV sets. Who do you think will win in game of currency chicken ? It won't be us !

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 22, 2004 02:20 PM

QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE STILL WATCHING THIS THREAD ??

This is a question about my personal plans to get ready for what I feel is the inevitable.

Plan #1 Sell my overvalued house and take the proceeds to pay off as much debt as possible.

This part of the plan is done. I was able to pay off quite a bit of debt and my wife,kids and I are now living in a nice efficient aparment complex and are trying our best to finish off our debt

PLAN #2 Hopefully things won't spin out of control too fast, as I think it will take another year to pay off all my debt. But plan #2 occurs after all debt is paid, we will start keeping a small amount of money in dollars(2-4k) and the rest I will be buying into Silver and Gold coins and bullion(kept at a safe non bank location). But, still living in our apartment. Doing this for another year (Sept 2006). Hoping to save enough for a down payment on land and building a small but efficient home on 5 or 10 acres. Digging a well(made sure of where good water well areas around us are), and start to get as small as possible. Hopefully my wife and I won't loose our jobs, but in the interim we will learn how to grow stuff and maybe get a few animals and plant some fruit trees.
PLAN #3 Doubt my wife would go along with this but to try and be completely self sufficient. This part is just a pipe dream for me, but may be an unfoutunate reality if what I fear is going to happen happens. But even if it didn't the idea of running a self suffiencent farm and getting simple again is very appealing to me..

So Questions are TIMING ?? In your opinion do I have enough time to at least get to Plan B(Sept/Nov 2006)..... Living in an apartment in the interim, Is this smart or am I putting my family in danger living in such a people dense area(buying a house is not an option at this point as we are very cash short and in the process of repairing our credit report)..... If I wait another year to start putting money in gold and silver will I have missed the boat ?? or should that not matter either way.

Thanks in advance.....

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 22, 2004 02:53 PM

You have time, feeling wierd. You have time. It will take a lot longer for us to really hit rock bottom in this country, and when we do it will not be pretty. But time you have, I would guess the next ten years will unfold as you see, but the only thing that would kill us dead would be a big nuclear bomb or $300 a barrel oil. Not that those are totally out of possibility....gather resources and get your family prepared. Now if I could just get my wife to cut up her debt card....

Posted by: AllenM at November 22, 2004 08:44 PM

I think there are possibly a few years to go before events get out of control, but we could also spin out of control tomorrow.

The fact that all of the powers that be are now publicly addressing the weak dollar issue is an indication that events are getting a little uncomfortable. I sense a growing unease amongst our leaders, some of the things coming out of China and Russia are quite alarming, and even the Brits have been quite candid about the perils of the dollar's weakness.

If you think about your own emotional state, the highs and lows, then think about how quickly at times you have gone from an extreme high emotionally to a terrible low. I would guess most of us have experienced that. Well now think about the collective subconcious doing that in relation to the dollar, oil and the stock market.

It is possible that the population could collectively lose confidence very quickly - and that's the wild card.

Our leaders have shown an incredible ability to control our psyche's over generations, but they cannot guarantee the outcome each time - and we're definitely approaching an extreme where they must be nervous about their ability to predict whether collectively we the people will choose to continue to ignore their manipulations and maintain our confidence in them and their fiat dollar.

Our confidence can be wittled away with gradual interest rate hikes, mauled by a terrorist attack or shattered by the realization that we're dependent on the communist Chinese for our daily bread!!

Wow, that does sound pretty scary, OUR SYSTEM IS DEPENDANT ON THE COMMUNIST CHINESE FOR IT'S SHORT TERM SURVIVAL!

OK, I just panicked! I'm now selling everything that is dollar denominated that I own and will store all of my assets in Chinese Renmindi!

Here is an article I think everyone should read who is concerned about the coming depression:

Peak Oil, Stolen Elections, Energy Wars

http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/content/issue19/features/ruppert.php

Cheers Rich

Posted by: Rich Lancaster at November 22, 2004 09:53 PM

Geez people, don't get so worked up. Remember how they said in the 70's that oil was almost gone? Or how we were all gonna run out of food in the 80's (or whatever that myth was)? Things always seem to work out ok in the end. The sooner that the U.S. can unwind its debt bubble and go through the cleansing process, the better. Sure there'll be short-term pain, but things will be better in the long run, and hopefully the folks in DC will open their eyes, as a result, and realize that a gold standard is far superior to over-printed government paper.

Posted by: SomeGuy at November 22, 2004 10:57 PM

Remember, things were NOT bad for everyone during the Great Depression. There were MANY pockets of areas that did not feel a thing, especially in New England. It will be the same this time too. Maybe not as many untouched, but we will survive. American Inginuity will win out once again, and we will find a way to survive.
I plan on being one of those who CREATES wealth during the hard times that are coming, and having my family higher on that totum pole, AND getting rich.


Hey feeling weird, I think you might have made a mistake moving your family into that area. Are you living with poor people in the complex? An area like that would become VERY dangerous with a week electrical outage.
That is the way to decide if you are safe. Would you like to live there if the electicity were to go away for a week? Preparing food would become an issue. Water might also become a valued resourse. Would you have enough? I was going to tell you to buy those Army-rations. The ones that last a few years, but they would probably get stolen. Family could easily DIE in a place like that if the big one hits hard.
I have my property. I owe money on it, but I have positive equity. The debt is NOT a big deal, as long as you keep it under control. Like the saying goes, "All things, in moderation."

Is this thread dead? Russ, you there?

"Hope it never happens, but prepare..."


The Chemical Man

Posted by: The Chemical Man at November 23, 2004 02:10 AM

Brilliant !

Imagine Greenspan driving a car with his right
foot on the accelerator & at the same time his left foot on the brakes.

At some point the brakes will fail. All Greenspan can do is stir the car with the accelerator petal to the floor. At some point Greenspan will hit a curb, sending you and me
over the cliff.

Posted by: Robert Herron at November 23, 2004 03:48 AM

Feeling Weird,
You’re raising very good questions. The guess on timing is very difficult. There is a natural propensity for governments to maintain the status quo, especially when they are in a credit expansion mode, and avoid risk of collapse. It is the less predictable citizenry in fragile economies or vocal investors filled with fear that may surface as the key driver of collapse at any time.

Generally the rule of thumb has been to:
· Minimize your debt levels
· Keep your job.
· No more than 10% in gold and/or silver coins. Remember, precious metals do not produce anything. They are not real “investments”….. They are only a safe hedge to hold value as governments debase our currencies.
· Avoid the tendency to “get rich quick” by investing all of your “marbles” into a risky move be it long or short.
· Stay completely away from margin leverage except on money you “expect to lose”.

I think the notion of wanting total self-sufficiency is extreme. The utility companies will probably get sloppy and more expensive, but American spirit and resolve will keep them running most of the time. Those violating most of the rules noted above will suffer.

I’ve mentioned in a prior note the following:
…We will experience a dollar crisis before the end of 2006....
· The Dow will drop below 7,000 (before Dec 2006)....
· Bonds and housing will drop 10-30% in the same time frame....
· The dollar crisis will be followed by an emergency G-7 (+China) summit meeting where the US will pressure our partners to use the same monetary "medicine" we prescribe to an extreme (low interest, easy money)...
· This will temporarily goose the global economies (and the metrics noted above) for a year or two..... Then
....a global collapse...... 2008 to 2010 (or sooner)

If you haven’t herd Jim Puplava on his Financial Sense Newshour, then listen to him each week. He is one of the more economically savvy, level heads you will find. He has a good sense of investing in these difficult times and interviews wonderful people. There are a few areas where I disagree, but very few. e.g. He thinks China will continue with their growth, but at a slower level, which will keep endless pressure on oil prices, thus never seeing sub-$35 oil. I believe China will collapse within the same time frame as I am predict for the US or sooner. China has violated the basic Austrian Economic principles to a greater extent than the US. Their fragile banking system, monetary management, plant overcapacity, resource misallocation, bad debt, and aggressive tendencies will hurt them. As the US spending spree softens, it will devastate China’s economy. They are already suffering from debilitating commodity increases and slackened local demand. If they collapse, the oil demand will drop as will the price ($10-$20??). In time, I believe hyperinflation will likely begin.

Feeling Weird…. If you focus upon getting out of debt and listen to Jim Puplava, you’ll be fine. We need freedom fighters in the communities leading and educating others, not seeking isolation out in the sticks…

Good luck…

Posted by: Russ Randall at November 23, 2004 03:58 AM

The U.S. and Chinese economies are wheels on the same bicycle frame. Accomodations will be made, IF both sides can stay rational. The last thing PRC leaders want is tens of millions of unemployed workers blaming the government for their plight. Similarly, rising interest rates in the U.S. would trigger an economic disaster in housing and a crash in consumer spending, followed some months later by tens of millions of unemployed Chinese workers...

If forced, governments in both countries can resort to that old standby, war, to keep the lid on things.

Posted by: TJK at November 23, 2004 04:12 AM

While I agree that there will need to be community freedome fighters, I unforunately do not believe it can be those who prepared. Take a look at your community lately. Those who have prepared will "have" and if they preach or teach to those in their community, those who did not prepare will take. The majority of our society does not want to know the truth as they do not have the means to prepare living paycheck to paycheck. Another large sector in our community just sits with thier hands out (or cardboard signs up) waiting for others to do for them. If life gets hard without a lot of the luxuries we now have, then life will get mean. I take it you have not been in a WalMart recently during a 4-hour sale. Watch out for those ladies edging those carts for the $1 basket of plastic fruit they do not need if you are in the way. They will absoltely run you over. Panic is already here. Get something cheap - even if you don't need it! Live in the sticks and travel to your community to lead.

Posted by: Paranoid's Daughter at November 23, 2004 04:17 AM

Hi , Its good if you try to get out of debt and try to save and prepare for the coming new Great Depression . But the govt. does not want you to spend less or cut borrowing because thats what our system of making money out of thin air is " ITS DEBT BASED". OUR Central Bank Fed. Reserve system only thrives when americans overspend and over borrow to excess. when cheap energy stops and americans start to save and start to pay off their debts, mortgages and credit cards , etc our DEBT Fiat based economy will collapse. also our oil - made society
relies on cheap energy-oil and FACT: that is coming to an end.

I do not recommend living in an apartment. I do recommend living somewhat close to a smaller town and grow your own food. Hell you can buy a small 1 bedroom camper trailer or double wide fairly cheap and wait until you can afford to make or buy a conventional home. Only bad part is high winds , tornadoes. I have changed my houses wood stove to a more efficient type also I changed all the bulbs to screw in fluorescent type and got rid of regular incandescent energy wasting bulbs! I saved around $30 dollars a month on my power bill! having a well is great isnt it no water bills and we will still have water when govt. cannot afford to pay the electricity bills to pump water to homes when energy costs skyrocket! People underestimate living without water. Its more important than food in that you cannot live without water very long compared to food. In reality today compared to 100 years ago people did not have flush toilets they had outhouses - hole in the ground, they did not take showers as much as today. Mainly water was to wash dishes your face and hands - wash basin with pitcher and drink.
People use, and waste way too much water today.

I still dont get it "WHY some people still dont understand that our currency is worthless
"Expensive cloth Paper" Look up the Fed's Reserves own website and it states it has: !!

"NO INTRINSIC VALUE" ! HELL even coupons at the food store are redeemable as 1/100 of a cent. This Great DEPRESSION will be a "LOT WORSE" than 1930's for many reasons but What you are forgetting is this depression will not be exactly like last one. Last time your coins were made out of "REAL LEGAL Constitutional MONEY"
GOLD & SILVER, not the paper play money of today. Today our coins are sandwitches Nickel coated copper. Turn a coin on the side and you can see the copper it looks like a penny. A penny is mostly zinc coated in copper.
So this time our Fiat paper dollar will probably make weimar republic's basket full or wheelbarrow seem small you will need a pickup bed full of paper money to go to the food store and buy 1 dozen eggs, 1 gallon milk, 1 chicken, 1 bag of rice or mashed potatoes,or oats!
THIS TIME IT WILL BE MUCH WORSE. Then you will pay $10 to $20 a gallon with "lost buying power dollars" to take your food home.
But since 50% of america will be unemployed how will you buy food, gas in the 1st place.
One lost art in america is to can jar foods in BALL Jars. You will need to have instructions on how to can foods by boiling them or "BUY a Pressure cooker" For Ball jars, and extra lids. I remember aunt Bees pickles hopefully our food will taste better than that!! :)

I would buy storage food , and barter items 1st then you can buy extra Gold and silver. Remember the phrase you cant eat gold but many americans with things that you will want may not take dollars like the end of the confederacy with worthless confederate money. wooden nickels. Russia's money rubles was called wooden money because it was worthless paper money.

You know the 1970's did warn us that when cheap oil runs out that our economy will suffer. This time theres no extra supply for americans to get oil from. Saudi wells are starting to decline! anwr alaska Oil reserves are being used as a "LIE TO CALM THE SHEEPLE-MASSES" Scientists show it will only last 1 to 2 years tops or less and will not matter much in 10 years when demand is even higher in U.S.
I do believe the average person does want to believe that our finite oil supply running out will magically be replaced by "something" . Well I do not believe it will be that easy. I do believe it will be excessively expensive.
I do NOT believe americans are as rugged as their 1930's counterparts, also because of government schools- indoctrination centers they are "Not as Smart" also. They need govt. mommy to save-help them . this time it will not be there for them.Americans are wimps today they pay the I.R.S. 25 to 50% of their income without complaining yet they bitch that atm's steal $2 lousy dollars. Get your prioritys straight! as greedy as americans have become about dollars theyre more important than their god that they would abolish the I.R.S. fire all of its employees and make april 15 a national holiday!

Look at our phony fraud dollar "ITS COLLAPSING" right now and I would bet It will totally collapse by 2008 for lots of reasons. Its sad our children have to suffer because of others bad decisions. Remember we the people elected those bad politicians from the 2 major parties. The democrats and republicans could cut back on spending yet all they did was vote on a budget increase? why not a spending cut. Because the lie would be exposed then and our govt is not ready for the truth to come out yet. In 2008 the LIE cannot be covered up any longer. hell already other countries are noticing "The U.S.A. has NO INTENTION OF REPAYING ITS DEBT BILLS" That truth is already out soon average americans will realize that their Medium of exchange the Fed fiat dollar is a worthless lie and that social security and medicare is an unfundable lie!! I would buy gold in small sizes 1/2 , 1/4 , 1/10 oz. u.s. bullion coins since its higher in cost vs silver then buy 90% silver coins pre 1965 or bullion later. Buy long shelf life food, vitamins , wine ,whiskey-alcohol as barter, and dont forget Medicine aspirin, whatever you use. Too bad cigarettes dont last long as barter. Food-water clothing and shelter , Real money gold and silver platinum and cheap transportation are all that will matter soon. Get a Diesel vehicle to run on Vegetable corn, Hemp, peanut, soy , canola ,sunflower, oil, or any renewable oil I left out. Gasoline will become expensive and in short supply. Govt will return the 55mph speed limit like 1970's and maybe ration cards- STAMPS like WW2. i REMEMBER Gas stations closed and that caused no gas road rage. Get a gun to defend your family and food. also rent the Grapes of Wrath about the 1930's depression with Henry Fonda Driving a truck like Beverly hillbillies truch with bald tires to california from Dust bowl midwest. Kids were starving then and soon kids will starve again. I recommend Going to Wal-mart food stores for cheap prices on canned goods or super stores and buy family size. Some food stores try to make you take discount cards to spy ,record what you buy and then tell you saved? Usually wal-mart is cheaper. Some stores are unionized and that adds to the cost of the food. Sorry but many americans make more than their job is worth then the union product they make costs more than it actually should cost and the company has to pass the added costs to run the business on to the consumers.. Cars ,airline tickets, etc. It makes me mad after sept/11 and the dot.com bubble burst that some americans go on strike. DAMN theyre lucky they even have a job today since millions have lost theirs. I have less customers calling me today for my help- work since Jan 2000.I know soon people will be willing to take "any job" when theres 50% unemployment when our govt goes bankrupt.
Remember our Paper Fed. Reserve dollars is not real money so this new GREAT DEPRESSION WILL BE MUCH WORSE THAN 1930'S.iF YOU DO NOT OWN YOUR PROPERTY YOU WILL LOSE IT. ITS TIME TO DOWNSIZE.
INGENUITY WILL SAVE AMERICA! ONLY YOUR OWN PREPARATIONS NOW WILL SAVE YOU. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, INDIVIDUALS WITH INTELLIGENCE.You will have to tell your neighbors you do not have food even if you do and you cannot help them. Your family will come 1st. so I say 2008 is the rude awakening. By the end of 2005 U.S.A Govt. will agail hit its new debt ceiling of $8.2 TRILLION DOLLARS. Then they will raise it again so by the end of 2006 we will hit the debt ceiling again then repeat for end of 2007 then 2008 Baby boomers start retiring demanding social security checks and medicare costs will bankrupt america.
Govt predictions are $44 Trillion dollars in Debt. Remember every time they increase the Money in the u.s. economy by $800 Billion it Devalues your dollars in the bank-, your wallet , purse etc. Your 401-K and IRA'S are a joke totally worthless ! WHY because theyre redeemable in worthless Phony Fed Fiat dollars that will also be virtually worthless .1 cent will equal 1 Fed. Fiat paper dollar. Hell 1 Fed .Dollar today is only worth .15 cents or LESS! soon they will be worthless .1 cent
Get "real money" gold and silver and food NOW!
you only have 3 years left tops!!! GOOD LUCK!!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 23, 2004 06:26 AM

Wanniski is a fool. He thinks he knows it all about the causes of the depression of the 30's... And he thinks it is unrelated to the sterling's fate...
THe post avalanche is much more intelligent.

Supply side economics can not work. ANd have never even been tried.

The thing is there is a huge amount of debt. So deflation will hit first, and then inflation.

Asset prices will fall relative to good prices. Good prices will fall in suit relative to money. People will store more and more money. Speculating in a new manner. Velocity will fall.
And money creation will need to reach ever higher volume.
Sooner or later cash holders will realise prices can not fall more. They will spend. Velocity will rise. By that time the inflating effect will be enormous. Good prices will rise and asset price follow but slower.

That's the usual path.
Blaming Greenspan is easy. He's an easy target. But is he in charge of all advertisment ? This advertisement society was not created by greenspan.
Did he pass anti union laws ?
Did he create this situation where countries can compete for goods and capital, but where people can not cross the state barriers ?
If you live in a rich country, and if you can get the goods you once made just by buying them in underevalued currencies... Would not you do it ?
That's a part of the reason of all the debt. People have tried to keep their standard of living while economic activity has been shipped abroad.
Meanwhile developping countries have kept their currency underevalued to sustain their high growth level.

There is every reason to believe that even though trade barriers are known to hurt the economy, more will appear in the coming years. That's the only way some balance may be found, rich countries will stop to rely on cheap work done elsewhere, developping countries will start to developp inner demand and to serve their inner needs.

Posted by: DF at November 23, 2004 10:30 AM

We seem to have a good core of people checking this website. I would really like to keep this going(very good form of therapy). I would like to introduce myself. My name is Bob and I am from Ohio(USA). I really appreciate the advice that some of you have given ! I just feel the clock ticking incesintly in my head. I know what I have to do, but things can only proceed at a set speed. I had bought into the whole consumer mentality and like our country it will take awhile for me to unwind my debts and get back to firm footing.

There seems to be two distinct camps on this site. Those who feel that the depression will be of the historic kind, where there is mass dislocation and some definite strife, but that after 10 years or so of unwinding, things will be able to return to some sense of normalcy and that this will be a great opporitunity for those who saw it comming and were able to not only ride it out but come out of it better.

The other camp(I am more and more leaning to this camp), feel that this is not 1929 USA, but more akin to 1927 Germany. We are heading for a hyper inflated mess fueled by the knowledge that our energy base is going to very soon disapear on us. All the pieces are in place for another Hitler to just pick up the reigns and briddle we so nicely put in place for him/her. 1929 America was filled with rugged individuals fresh off the literal farm. They knew how to survive, they were the ones who built the capital this country was built on. They knew nothing in 1929 about social security and welfare and tax breaks. Most people weren't even taxed in this country. They didn't live their lives around how best to get a tax break. People of Wiemar Germany knew all about these sorts of things as they had been dumbed down and made dependent by decade of social tinkering(read Leonard Piekoff's Ominous Paralels for more on this). This was the big difference as to why Germany went the way it did and the way the US did. We weren't at the same stage of our national develpment as they were. It took almost 60 years of tinkering to get us ready.

I know it's a very disturbing concept to grasp, but we are not our 1930's counterparts(we on this site may be, but the mass majority is not !). People of this country are tripping over themselves trying to give their rights away. What makes any of you believe in what you see in contemporary society that would lead you to believe this country has what it takes to make it through another great depression with our country still intact. What will emerge will be nothing short of another Hitler type. History repeats itself but is seldom the same. Everyone knows the history of Germany and the same mistakes will not be made. All effort will be made to make sure that the lemmings of this country never wakes to the reality of what this country is doing in their name. Iraq was siezed for it's oil period ! And all the blood that has been spilt there is our fault(collectivly). We had a chance to make a difference over the past 2 decades, but Americans decided that the status quo was fine.

So, this leads me back to my plan. Get small, plan now. Think less in terms of 1930's USA and more like 1930's Germany. Those that lived in the country side of Nazi Germany were for the most part left alone(unless they were a major farmer). Get inconspicuous and learn to enjoy the simple life again. For those with children(As with me), there are so many more perils. There will come a time in the not to distant future where you will have to make a choice. Voluntarily give your child up to fight wars(at 18), voluntarily give up your child to be indoctrinated(and chiped by digital angel), or be considered an outlaw. I haven't figured my way past this one yet. My kids are very young(3 and 5), and they will still be young as these events unfold. I just pray sometimes and hope the answer comes to me. Leaving the country I don't think will be a very good option. So anyways rant and rave over. I will keep my eyes open. I haven't completely resigned myself to the above future. I just prepare like it is, and to be honest if we all just prepared like that was the future, wouldn't this country be much better for it !!

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 23, 2004 02:48 PM

Any comparison is risky...
But still the 1927 Germany ... Hyperinflation did not really harm germany. Nor did it create unemployment.
Hyperinflation was an efficient way out of debt.
Most of the debt was related to war reparations being paid mostly to France.

The situation is closer therefore to 1930's USA and most importantly 1930's Worldwide.
The problem is this massive asset bubble ... Even bigger than the US 30's.

Hitler is the product of 1929's US collapse as much as it is of Germany 1924-28 hyper inflation.
In Fact the Nazis tried to do something in the 20's but could not.
They really started to get strong with the economic depression that followed 1929 ...


We europeans have long learned that state intervention is often more efficient than market manias booms and bust.
Watch the scandinavian states, they have the highest tax ratio on earth and are very competitive. They are not debt ridden countries.

Most of the time state regulation is good if it aims at curbing concentration of economic wealth, monopolies, and speculation booms and bust.

The problem in the USA has been this "satanic" alliance of pretended "supply side" economics and biased keynesianism.
Everything has been deregulated. Less environmental protection, less anti trust laws enforcement, action against labor unions ... And the most visible acts : less taxes for the rich people, less taxes on corporate companies, lower interest rates...
Add it all and it is a perfect reciepy for an asset boom.

Be sure of one thing : your social security will face less trouble than all the 401ks have.

We've seen globally (with USA and UK leading the way) an era of free lunches for capital holders. They got everything they wanted. No need to improve your efficiency : the government would lower your taxes. Again and again. That's how investors were told to expect ever increased returns.

But it can not work.

So moves are about to reappear the other way around.
Though it may sound bad for those holding lots of assets, for the average man, the onset of depression will also the the rise of a new era of hope.

Down with the "laissez-faire" elites. There's some hope that once the train will hit the wall of reality, the new path taken will be more sustainable ... For some 50 years at least.


Posted by: DF at November 23, 2004 06:24 PM

China tells US to put its house in order

By James Kynge in Beijing, Chris Giles in London and James Harding in Santiago
Published: November 22 2004 18:36 | Last updated: November 22 2004 18:36

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f16a4694-3cb1-11d...000e2511c8.html

In a mark of China's growing economic confidence, the country's central bank has offered blunt advice to Washington about its ballooning trade deficit and unemployment.

In an interview with the Financial Times, Li Ruogu, the deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, warned the US not to blame other countries for its economic difficulties.

“China's custom is that we never blame others for our own problem,” said the senior central bank official. “For the past 26 years, we never put pressure or problems on to the world. The US has the reverse attitude, whenever they have a problem, they blame others.”

Mr Li insisted an appreciation of the Chinese currency would not solve the US's structural problems and that although China was “gradually” moving towards greater exchange rate flexibility, it would not do so under heavy external pressure.

“Under heavy speculation we cannot move [towards greater flexibility] and under heavy external pressure we cannot,” said Mr Li. “So the best environment for us to gradually move towards a more flexible exchange rate is when people don't talk about it.”

His comments will disappoint US, Japanese and European politicians. Pressure has mounted on the Chinese administration to revalue the renmimbi or to increase the flexibility of the Chinese exchange rate over the past two years.

Mr Li said China could only permit greater renminbi flexibility after creating a domestic financial infrastructure, including reformed banks and developed markets, able to cope with a more liberalised currency mechanism; considering the conditions and the wishes of neighbouring Asian economies on any move towards a more flexible system; and educating people on how to deal with a new exchange rate system, teaching them how to hedge.

Mr Li, who spoke before a meeting of the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation (Apec) forum last weekend, said China did not want to run trade surpluses or accumulate foreign currency reserves. Its reserves stand at $515bn.

“If there is a small deficit, we are not concerned. But certainly we don't want to run into the US situation of having a trade deficit of 6 per cent of GDP,” he said.

“That is not sustainable,” he added. “The appreciation of the RMB will not solve the problems of unemployment in the US because the cost of labour in China is only 3 per cent that of US labour they should give up textiles, shoe-making and even agriculture probably.

“They should concentrate on sectors like aerospace and then sell those things to us and we would spend billions on this. We could easily balance the trade.”

China's timetable for freeing up the renminbi is expected to have an impact on sales of US goods to the mammoth and growing Chinese market as well as the consumption of Chinese goods in America.

The recent, adjustment to Chinese interest rates is seen by some in Washington as evidence that Beijing accepts administrative measures that are no longer an effective means of managing an increasingly liberalised market.

At last weekend's G20 meeting, finance ministers and central bank governors called for a global effort to reduce trade imbalances, and in partiuclar, the US current account deficit. John Snow, the US treasury secretary, repeated his commitment to work towards halving the US budget defict and to increase net US national saving, which would reduce the current account deficit.

But President George W. Bush's assurances at the weekend that his administration is committed to a strong dollar policy appeared to do little on Monday to encourage buying of the dollar, evidence of how far the White House's credibility on currencies has been undermined by the rising deficit. In mid day trading in New York the dollar was at 1.304 against the euro and 103.21 against the yen.

Posted by: Grizzly at November 23, 2004 06:50 PM

Good post DF..

I couldn't disagree more, but you are a thinker and that's good. Guess the larger thing I was trying to point out, is the inherent danger that the U.S. presents to the world(way more so than now). As someone who obviously doesn't live here, I think that puts you in an even more precarious position(do you mind me asking where?). I think that the German and U.S. comparisons are too alike to be dismissed(economically less so than our cultural behaviour). Germany was a very free country throughout the 1800's but most notably in the mid 1800's. People from all over the world went to study German philosophy, math, art, and economics. They were the entithisis of the laissez-faire philosophy. I don't want to drag this into a socialism sucks and free markets rule debate. I think we both have very different takes on that subject. What I am warning those who are willing to look at it truthfully, is that this country has all the neccesary ingredients for a meglomaniac to take over. The only ingredient missing is an overriding event that will effect us all. 9/11 set the stage, much as the Reichstag fire did. But this is only act 1, if the feared collapse of the dollar and with it the American "Way of life" were to come to pass. You can't even image how easy it's going to be for some slick talking Hitler wanabe to rally the masses against whomever they feel is at fault(everyone except the people in the mirror). More than likely the Chinese. We are handing our rights over left and right for our "security". I truly fear for those of us in this country, but more so for those outside of it. The firepower alone that my country posesses is more than enough to keep us atop the social order for at least another 20 or 30 years. The costs of that will be enormous, but the point I was trying to make is that if you think this is 1930's America, everyone is sorely mistaken. We are a mirror image of the forces that were in play prior to Hitler's arrival in Germany. Again, history repeats but is seldom the same. The new person isn't going to be some goose stepping phycopath(not to the masses at least), he will be a uniter, a man from the middle. Just do yourself a favor and read some of the translations of Hitler's many public speaches. You could almost believe that he was talking about our own time. Scarry stuff. Hope to God I'm wrong, I hope that things somehow turn. But, my gut says no....

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 23, 2004 07:02 PM

Playing texas holdem at http://texas-holdem-000.net right now is a great idea, i thing!

Posted by: texas holdem at November 23, 2004 07:17 PM

I think when you embark on unplanned war adventures you need to make sure you can afford them. Clearly the Bush administration can't and their Chinese bankers seem to be getting quite restless.

Nuclear war is in nobody's interest but clearly nothing at all will stop Bush once he has received his instructions from God - except if his foreign financing dries up.

Posted by: Grizzly at November 23, 2004 07:21 PM

Some other thoughts DF...

Concerning Scandenavian and European's thoughts on government intervention and taxation. This big difference is very obvious. Scandanavia isn't sporting a military capable of destroying the world 3 times over. The people of Europe and Scandanavia have lived under the umbrella of America's war machine. As such they didn't have to protect themselves against the imminent threat of Soviet Russia as we did. Problem is that we haven't stopped. We are still spending more than the rest of the world combined on our defense. Our entire economy is based on this fact. So, I think it's a little misleading for you to compare apples to apples our debt and the non existant debt of the mentioned country's. Without having to worry about becoming the smallest province in the Russian empire, European states were freed to expand their social programs much more. But, I truly don't think that the European country's are any more immune to the perils than we are. As these social structure begin to collapse as they always will, no matter how they are structured, you will see extreme anger and violence(France most recently). Once people are hooked on the "free" money that governments give them, it is nearly impossible to remove that bottle from their mouth. We here in America are hooked on a much more dangerous bottle. We are hooked on cheap oil and an ever increasing debt load. Not a very good combo....

Posted by: feelingwierd at November 23, 2004 07:46 PM

Yeah, and it gets even worse when you look at the leadership. How the heck did this nut manage to get elected? By dozens of millions of other nuts?

-------------------------------------------------

"According to [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud] Abbas, Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

Haaretz, Israeli newspaper June 2003.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...sID=0&listSrc=Y

Posted by: Grizzly at November 23, 2004 08:07 PM

Is it any wonder that foreign capital is fleeing the US? This is like out of the friggin' middle ages, LOL.

--------------------------------------------------

July 25, 2004

Bush: God Told Me To Invade Iraq, Become President

According to the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, George Bush told Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas that the President's tactics of the War on Terror came directly from the mouth of God.

Abbas said that at Aqaba, Bush promised to speak with Sharon about the siege on Arafat. He said nobody can speak to or pressure Sharon except the Americans.

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

This is a little scary to me, that our President is visiting Muslim political leaders and telling them that God -- the Christian God -- told him to invade two Muslim coutries. However, why should we be surprised since Abbas is not the first to hear this. Bob Woodward wrote about how Bush decided to invade Iraq in his book, Plan of Attack:

Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"

Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.

”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.

Cabinet members don't matter. A father who served as President and had invaded the same country doesn't matter. Just the voice in the President's head that may or may not be God.

That's not it, though. Bush also thinks that God wanted him to become President.

Bush said to James Robinson: 'I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.'

God also believes that he is a conduit for God's voice, as he told a meeting of the Amish earlier this month. Now, this could just mean listening to the light, but in Bush's case he appears to get full sentences with punctuation and indentation.

At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’

There are hundreds of other examples, including one of Condi Rice and Karen Hughes holding mass on Air Force One when the President was running too late to get to church. They point not to a man who is religious and lets his faith guide him, but to a man who is obsessed to the point of delusion and believes that he is God's favorite and instrument.

That kind of person is often a good neighbor or friend, but a terrifying President.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...sID=0&listSrc=Y

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/...ain612067.shtml

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1075950,00.html

http://lancasteronline.com/pages/site/regi...ws/local/4/7564

http://www.patridiots.com/000552.html

Posted by: Grizzly at November 23, 2004 08:21 PM

Grizzly, quoting Mahmoud Abbas is very interesting, as he seems to belive God wants teenagers to strap on explosive belts and kill busloads of Israeli school children.

As for the EU, they have their own dance with the devil coming to a theater soon. Take a look at some of the plans and writings of Islamic militants -- the Sharia makes it clear that all lands formerly ruled under Islam must be recaptured. Thanks to the mullahs in Iran and their rich friends in Saudi Arabia, OBL will soon have the means to lay seige to Europe. Instead of meter-sized stone cannon balls, the walls of modern-day Constantinople will be breached with a more efficient weapon. I suppose the feckless and godless leaders in the EU will be true to history, and look to the West for salvation...

Posted by: TJK at November 23, 2004 09:21 PM

TJK, Abbas merely reported what he heard and did well in that. Besides this is only one of many instances where Bush claims to be guided or rather controlled by God. What is scary is that this is what controls Bush's policies. It's no use denying this.

It's a little late to complain about the dangers of fire once one has lit a giant one.

It would be best to fight terrorists by attacking terrorists. Iraq had no connection to 9.11 as you well know and even Bush has admitted this. Muslims correctly perceive this attack on Iraq by christian fundamentalists as an attack on Islam itself. Those who support this war must be ready to accept the consequences. In the meantime I´ll be watching Bush's war funding dry up. What then?
Nuclear war against the creditors?

Posted by: Grizzly at November 23, 2004 10:22 PM

Hi , I see a lot of Bush bashing here ,and thats your 1st amendment right. Bush will become the next Herbert Hoover Depression president. I laugh now when I hear republicans still call themselves conservatives what a lie - joke.
FACT: Bush has spent more of "we the People's" money than any president in History! Conserve means spend less not MORE?! DUH, But the Democrat PARTY HAS also to be blamed. The national debt has Increased under every president since 1964. THATS A FACT!

The dot. Com BUBBLE "BURST" under Clintax in
Jan. 2000 and Clinton was president for 1 year after the bubble burst! Kerry is not the answer to solving america's problems .He would have done the same thing that congress has done Spend and borrow more!. He voted himself a pay raise when Millions of americans had lost their jobs after sept/11 and the Dot.Com Bubble burst and Were at WAR IN IRAQ!! How dare he ask for a raise! He lied that he can save S.S.what a Joke!

Fact: Both MAJOR Parties are out of touch.
I Feel Good Inside in that I voted for a presidential candidate that was for "Reducing Spending not increasing it! I voted for the Libertarian Party Pres. Candidate Michael Badnarik . so my concience feels good in that I know our 2 party system is rigged and corrupt & i did not vote for them.
I sent a message that our govt needs to downsize and spend less not more. But since most americans are lied to they are asleep and way too trusting. The masses, herd mentality still believe the 2 MAJOR PARTIES LIES! THINK!
Our govt whether Democrat or republican controlled will overspend this "REPUBLIC" into BANKRUPTCY!!!!! YOU can COUNT on it!!!!

I do not support Bush especially since he passed the "PATRIOT ACT".
FACT: The PATRIOT ACT is "UN-PATRIOTIC" and UN-american and anti-freedom!
The next thing I have to warn about is the bad
"NATIONAL ID CARD" which is "ANTI-FREEDOM"!

FEELING WIERD IS RIGHT in that after economic collapses Dictatorships can try to take over! Hitler gave out BREAD , food to Germans and Im sure they liked him for it. A full belly makes you remember who did it! although thank God for the Bill of Rights and the 2ND AMENDMENT ! WE have an armed populace,people and I will not let a hitler type control america.One that bans guns and kills Jews ,& minorities, etc. I will never take a v-chip or national ID. Never!

I feel our NEW GREAT DEPRESSION will be unique but will be somewhat a mix of both 1930's and weimar republic. Ok like the 1930's our
"stock Market will have a collapse" and people will sell, sell , sell , and then the panic will set in. Then World citizens will go to their banks
"a RUN ON THE BANKS" will occur again
and try to close out their bank acct's and get their FIAT MONEY out of their countries banks. Most countries money today is paper fiat although the EURO and Swiss Franc are "PARTIALLY BACKED BY GOLD" 10% and this is "NOT" enough to stop them from devaluing & losing buying power.

I do think the base average recommendation that you only keep 10% of your net worth in gold , silver is way too small It should be greater at 50% and oil, coal stocks and Food, or real estate not 1930's style stocks.
Thats where the weimar part comes in.

Now the weimar part parallel will be That our Fed. Reserve DOLLAR is a worthless piece of cloth-paper that has "no Intrinsic value". Our paper money will become virtually worthless like weimar. Except this time even if our country restores the gold backed dollar :OUR GOVT STILL OWES THE MONEY IT BORROWED IN 1964 TO 2004"!
CITIZENS WILL NOT TRUST GOVT'S AS MUCH .
I do believe americans still believe in freedom enough that we would not let a hitler type into power. The 2nd amendment means owning a gun to shoot corrupt tyrannical politicians not to hunt or burgulars, robbers thats 2nd. when the 2nd amendment is gone you can kiss all the others goodbye speech press religion,etc . Your gun is your life preserver, your liberty teeth. Genocide occured under hitler because he banned guns and FACT: GENOCIDE occured in america just ask an american indian. Trail of tears! etc.

The difference this time around will be rising energy costs, oil shortages, and remember our money in 1930's was "REAL MONEY" this go around it will be worthless paper Fiat money. It could be said that our NEW DEPRESSION will be like living in the confederacy in 1865-66 or Russia recently with stores having virtually bare shelves -not much to sell. During the civil war gold , and silver were worth more than worthless paper confederate money.

so in closing I believe Kerry is just as much of a nut as bush. At least bush dosnt kneel and kiss the UNITED NATIONS ASS LIKE DEMOCRATS.

The UN is an anti-freedom organization: FACT
The UN wants to Ban Guns worldwide! Jap idea
The UN wants a World tax! joke
The UN wants the world court to be "ABOVE" our Supreme Court.Sorry the supreme court, judicial branch is my court.
The UN wants our troops to be under UN command and control, no way!
The UN wants to force the KYOTO Treaty down our throats and the treaty is biased in only "we the people" have to reduce our emissions not mexico city or Commie china,etc .Talk about not fair. I already pay way too much to heat my home and foreigners thru the treaty want me to pay more.? The treaty must be equal and fair or its wrong!
Anyway the UN is anti-american, they are envious of our capitalism and FREEDOM. I LOVE THAT WORD!

I LOVE OUR "republic" and I wish our govt. would stop overspending but after congress voting themselves a "Pay Raise" and monday's budget - DEBT increase VOTE it looks like a lost cause. So thats why you should prepare. I also am thinking that other posters are right in that you should "NOT" tell your average not close friends or neighbors that you have extra food & supplies. It could get that bad.

I 100% believe your 401-k's , I.R.A.'s , and social Security will "NOT" be there for you!
FACT: Think Theyre based in worthless Dollars and our Govt has already admitted in the 2004 Treasury Report $44 Trillion Debt that social security and Medicare will not be fundable! sell all your us savings bonds now! sell all non gold oil , coal , basics (food clothing ,homes) stocks NOW while the dow is reasonable because it will crash soon. There is a housing bubble but land will never lose all of its value, OUR FRAUD DOLLAR WILL!!!!!

The "Memo on the Fed" is our CURRENCY is collapsing and those of you that like the FED remember they were made in 1913 and they could not stop the last GREAT DEPRESSION. They will not be able to stop the next Great Depression , and CNN, FOX NEWS ,ABC, CBS, NBC will not televize it , no they keep lying to us that things will get better! at least one good thing will come out of this our Govt. will not be able to fund many branches of govt. that are anti freedom like the I.R.S. .unemployed americans cannot pay taxes!!!! Buy sadly our children will suffer! Think of living in a Great Depression and then you will start to prepare. GOOD LUCK
WERE ALL AMERICANS. REMEMBER ITS A GLOBAL ECONOMY So if there are any foreigners reading this your economies will suffer too. sorry! sometimes the direct approach is best, the truth shall set you free. LET FREEDOM RING!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 24, 2004 01:25 AM

There is hope for us all, perhaps the great United States of America, will collapse as weakly and as quickly as that Terrible "Evil Empire" the Soviet Union. They too had enough weaponry to destroy the entire world many times over, but they did not go out with a bang, but with a whimper.

The Soviet Union was undermined economically by the United States and so it collapsed. It appears to me that the People's Republic of China has learned from this and has decided to beat the capitalists at their own game. Believe me, I am no fan of the now Fascist State of China, but I am certain that they will undermine, out produce and over power a weak and corrupt America.

Walmart should fly a People's Fascist Republic flag instead of the Stars and Stripes! Wake up America before it is too late!

Posted by: Northern View at November 24, 2004 11:35 AM

To Northern View...

You are so unfoutunatly RIGHT !! If everyone doesn't see what China is up to, they must have their heads up their asses. China is making moves all over the globe, they are in Iran with Russia making deals to make sure that Iranian oil(3rd largest proven reserve in world), doesn't fall into the hands of Israel and the U.S.. THey are in South America working with countries like Venezuala(7th largest proven reserves) and Brazil. Making food and oil deals for Chinese import deals. They have not so quietly built up one of the largest stashes of U.S treasuries, bonds and dollars over the last 4 years. Oh and guess which stupid M*the$ Fu#$ing president allowed our advanced missle technology to fall into the hands of the Chinese(think cigars and the oval office). The Chinese are setting us up just like we did the Russians. We knew that oil was the achiles heal of Russia, and according to a recently released CIA report written in 1977, our govenment knew that Russia was facing an immenint peak of domestic oil production sometime in the mid 80's. They were dead right on, and pushed the Saudi's and Quati's to flood the maket with cheap oil and deny the Russian's crucial outside capital to keep it's failing economy alive.

Our achiles heal is our money. We absolutly depend now on outside money(and oil), to keep our economy and country afloat. The Chinese are just being enablers in this process, and I don't think it's out of the goodness of their heart. There will come a point not to far in the future, where they will stop buying new debt and start cashing in their existing positions. This will be very painful for them as they will loose hundreds of billions in the process, but it may be nearly fatal for us(much like the cold war). The Chinese are beating us at our own game. We shouldn't blame them for being so much better at the game than us, we should blame our pathetic leaders for being so bad at it. I can only hope that our leaders are just lulling them into a false sense of superiority and that we have an ace up our sleeve.

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 24, 2004 03:07 PM

Captain Freedom...

God I wish I could see it the way you do, but I don't. Half of this country owes it's entire financial wellbeing on the govenment at all levels. This is just the people who actually have jobs, this does not include people on wellfare and Social Security and the thousands of other govenment giveaway programs. I am truly sorry to say this, America as you see it and maybe as you knew it(depending on how old you are), is gone. They are putting tracking devices in test markets on our children, they are prepping them to accept any and all intrusions on their privacy and thinking. And the worse part of this is, most parents are just letting it happen. Horrible laws are passed everyday without so much as a whimper from the masses. I just got through reading two stories that should tell you the state of the "individual" in this country. Ukrane is in the midst of a near revolution amid the appearance of tampering or at the very least inproprieties, of the election there. Literally hundreds of thousands of people are protesting in the street over the past few days. Contrast this with the judgement by(and I am so ashamed to say this, as he is a judge in my own backyard) Jdg Carr, federal appeals judge, that the recount of the Nov2nd election will not be done before the election is certified on Dec 2nd. So what they are saying is there may be some problems, but so what, you won't do anything about it, so fuck you. And we just sit around and do nothing.

Captain Freedom just remember that America is a state of mind not a place. If people like you and I and others on this board remember what freedom is and what it means, it will never die. But, for this PLACE called America it may be over. America the state of mind will never die, so long as people like you are alive. Keep up the fight.

Posted by: FeelingWierd at November 24, 2004 04:35 PM

By Jack Brubaker
Lancaster New Era

Published: Jul 16, 2004 12:55 PM EST

Bush Quietly Meets With Amish

http://lancasteronline.com/pages/news/local/4/7565
LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - President Bush met privately with a group of Old Order Amish during his visit to Lancaster County last Friday. He discussed their farms and their hats and his religion.


He asked them to vote for him in November.

The Amish told the president that not all members of the church vote but they would pray for him.

Bush had tears in his eyes when he replied. He said the president needs their prayers. He also said that having a strong belief in God is the only way he can do his job.

This story has not been reported before. You might think an observant press follows the president everywhere, especially during a re-election campaign, but no reporter attended this meeting.

Sam Stoltzfus, an Old Order historian and writer who lives in Gordonville, spoke with a number of people present at the session with the president.

He related what happened to the Scribbler, saying the Amish “caught Bush’s heart.’’

The 20-minute meeting with Bush occurred immediately after the president addressed a select audience at Lapp Electric Service in Smoketown Friday afternoon.

An Amish woman who lives on a farm across Witmer Road from Lapp Electric that morning had presented a quilt to the president with a card thanking him for his leadership of the country.

Bush said he would like to talk to the quilter and her family.

So the Secret Service invited the family to meet the president. Friends wanted to come along, and the entire assembly eventually numbered about 60. They were evenly divided between adults and children of all ages.

The group walked together across the road to Lapp Electric.

Stoltzfus reports: “It took a while to get them through the metal detectors as these were farmers and shop men, with vice grips, pocket knives, and nuts and bolts in their pockets. Some ladies had baby gear. All pockets had to be emptied.’’

When the Amish were “found not to be a serious threat to national security,’’ they were allowed inside the office area of Lapp Electric and waited about 30 minutes for the president to appear.

“Babies got restless. Children squirmed,’’ Stoltzfus reports. “Suddenly the president and five Secret Service men stepped into the room. One housewife said, ‘Are you George Bush?’’’

The president replied in the affirmative and shook hands all around, asking the names of all. He especially thanked the “quilt frau,’’ who operates her own business selling quilts and crafts.

“He seemed relaxed and just like an old neighbor,’’ says Stoltzfus.

Bush said he had never met any Amish before and was curious about why the men were wearing straw hats rather than black wool hats. The Amish explained that they wear cooler straw in summer. Bush tried on a hat.

The president commented on the appearance of Amish farms, and an Amish man spoke apologetically about how he and his friends were not expecting to see the president and were wearing soiled work clothes. Bush said he did not mind that.

Another man remarked that he has twin daughters, as does Bush. The man said one of his twins had dreamed the night before that she was shaking hands with the president and now she actually had done that.

“One of the young girls wanted to give Bush a whoopie pie cookie,’’ Stoltzfus says. “Bush declined it. The Secret Service man took it, as presidents aren’t supposed to eat untested food.’’

At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’

As the president left the room, one Amish man wished him good luck in November.

“The Amish group headed back to their farms and shops,’’ reports Stoltzfus. “Mothers took their children home for a nap and went back to their sewing and gardens.’’

Bush moved along to an appearance in York County, leaving behind a group of Old Order admirers who have tales to tell for the rest of their lives.


Posted by: Grizzly at November 24, 2004 07:02 PM

Grizzly what are you getting at with your posts? you never have any comentary following them. Just curious. Are you saying that Bush is nuts ? Or that you believe that God actually does speak through him or what ?

Posted by: FeelingWeird at November 24, 2004 07:09 PM

The economy of the US is based in orthodox economics, with the basic premise being that a general increase of the GDP over time will always occur, thus our economy will never collapse, and we will be fine economically. This couldnt be further from the truth. Allen Greenspan gives us on a daily basis an illusion that if the economy is "adjusted" everything will balance itself out, in one way or another. After minoring in economics in college, I realized with each class that it is not an exact science, and these economists such as Greenspan, are following more of a hunch - much like a doctor who isnt sure of the disease/issue based on the symptom - the diagnosis could be wrong. One thing is for sure, the higher the debt we are in - both consumer, trade, and budget- when the borrowers want their loans back, the economy will crash. It wont be the end of the world, but it will be devastating.

Posted by: Tim Egan at November 24, 2004 08:31 PM

Hi. Yes in soceiety countries that have revolutions & fight for freedom tend in their futures to go more toward a controlled environment with less freedom, but countries that are communist or restrict freedom tend to become more free. Our country is becoming less free yet our countries people are ARMED and I do feel that "WE THE PEOPLE" can only take so much BS.CRAP from government then they too shall rebel.
Feeling wierd is RIGHT in that WHY do U.S. Children only have rights guaranteed in our Bill of Rights when they turn 18?????????????
Really confusing? They regulate the t-shirts they wear? Bart simpson underachiever and proud of it t-shirt was banned! also t-shirts with a picture of a gun or a confederate flag or Martin luther king or malcom X, etc. Freedom of speech whats that? now they are forcing public school athletes to take DRUG tests which violates the 4th amendment " wheres the probable cause" were they seen using a specific drug? NO . What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty?? The same goes for "road blocks" theyre unconstitutional and anti-freedom. No probable cause violations. Road blocks are truthlully revenue road blocks for county govt's. a way to make money. Like speeding tickets and seat belt road blocks police "really dont give a damn if youre speeding, driving drunk or wearing a seat belt its a BIG! Revenue maker and gets americans used to illegal searches!!
Another thing in america which must be abolished is government control of schools. Im for separation of school and state. Public govt. schools teach our kids what they believe in not what their parents believe lies that you should pay your taxes, Guns not people are bad ,The 2 party system works? dont vote Green, Libertarian , or reform , etc? and they give children ritalin without FDA or doctors and parents approval. Spankings worked in the good-old days.
I recently saw another reason why our govt "WILL Go Bankrupt". Why do govt schools and govt courthouses cost $$ millions and Millions of dollars???? My God they look like the taj Mahal in india!! The costs are way excessive! way too much! Sales taxes are killing "We the People also. also property taxes are excessive. 80% of my property taxes go to public schools that graduate kids that still cannot read & write. wheres the accountability?? I dont know! I do believe that bush is the new Herbert hoover and "WHEN" our economy collapses by 2008 america will choose a Democrat for President but he will be "unable to Fix anything" so then in 2012 maybe Fed up americans will choose an accountable SPEND LESS Freedom Loving President from a 3rd Party like the Libertarians for Liberty Party! Think People will be fed up bigtime.

I do have a GOOD QUESTION:: How will a Bankrupt Govt. implement facist communist laws on us and "ENFORCE THEM" when the "WILL NOT" be able to pay its Police and militay because its gOVT. IS "BANKRUPT" ? Good Question #2 would you as a policeman , soldier, fireman, etc keep working for "FREE" I think not. Which is scary because if we have looting and riots like Hurricane andrews looting or L.A. Riots , looting in 1992 who will protect us?? I guess ourselves!
How will govt jack booted thugs implement totalitarian draconian laws on us like tracking chips , & steal our food and give it to others if theyre not being paid. I dont think it will happen. If FEMA tries to take my storage food I will resist. How many FEMA police do you know will knock on doors knowing the residents will resist when they tell them why their there? these are good Questions. and its true.
In my state in 1995-96 there was a drought no rain and Fema said it may be nessesary to confiscate peoples wells and give the water to neighbors that were without water. I thought if they came to my home and tried to take control of my well by force theyd have a fight on their hand. This is true. They said it right on t/v news. Now I would give some water voluntarily bvut not by force.

Think of another scary control issue in FREE? america! Even if you own your home outright 100% no mortgage. If you dont pay your property taxes the govt. will confiscate, and take your home by force and sell it at the courthouse steps to the highest bidder! Is that free? so technically were actually renting our homes from the government we "DO NOT OWN OUR HOMES" thats sad!
It makes me mad!
Our so called Free country is "not Free" and I do not want to live thru a Great depression because my parents did and they told me some scary stories of "HARD TIMES AND DOING WITHOUT" ALSO OUR KIDS WILL SUFFER LIVING THRU A GREAT DEPRESSION & Until now Ive had it pretty easy living in abundant america & that abundance is at an end! The only good thing is that our authoritarian Govt. will "NOT" be able to fund anti Bill of Rights laws much longer when they cant pay their stormtrooper police state thats the good new and thats the "ONLY GOOD thing" that will come out of this economic collapse that I didnt cause. Our Govt overborrowing and overspending caused this new Great Depression whichis guaranteed and I see after this last week is I believe "NOW STARTING"!!!!!!!!!!!
OUR CURRENCY IS COLLAPSING AND I BELIEVE IN 2005 OUR STOCK MARKET WILL GO BELOW 5000 DOW!! AND COLLAPSE! AMERICANS WILL SELL , SELL , SELL , VERY SOON MAYBE EVEN THIS YEAR! BUT PROBABLY NEXT YEAR. fOREIGNERS WILL PROBABLY START SELLING FIRST THEN AMERICANS.
i DO AGREE COMMIE CHINA is up to something . They are up to no good. Try to "do not buy anything made in Communist China" if possible. I knew in the late 70's that americans were buying way too much foreign products and it would come back to haunt us.
I hope and pray that the ideals of FREEDOM AND LIBERTY that are dear to us do not fade in America. as long as "WE THE PEOPLE" remain an armed people we can fight for our FREEDOM. and stop tyranny. When you buy storage Food you had better have a way to defend your home and food and family from looting. Looting does occur in america the L.A. riots were only 10 years ago and just look at what happens after baseball,basketball ,foot ball games!! riots occur and once law abiding citizens become drunk and hungry all hell can break loose ! thats a FACT! Better prepare! or suffer!
I wish you good luck! let freedom ring!!!!!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 25, 2004 12:54 AM

My American Friends (Captain America);

How will your shotguns, rifles and pistols save you from the Tyrant's chemical, biological, nuclear and psychological weapons?

It is the psychological weaponry that is the most intimidating; the Tyrant has total control of all media, save a few fringe sites on the internet, such as this one, which I am sure is being monitored by the Tyrant's intelligence services on a regular basis. We all should use great care with what we discuss here and most of us do, for there is a great Fear in America today, a Fear which is promoted and propagrated by the Tyrant.

Here we all are in a small forum physically separated by hundreds of miles writing electronic messages to one another because we are too fearful to venture out of our homes and take our concerns to the street, for we know what the Tyrant can do to us. The Tyrant can take our jobs, and turn our friends and families against us. We have become totally dependent on the Tyrant for everything we have, and so we have become utterly powerless.

We know what becomes of those who reject the system, they are the homeless, shunned and forgotten - A FATE WORSE THAN DEATH. Your guns can not save you, they are a moot point in an age where the weapons are far more sophisticated and subtle than any gun could ever be.

Take Great Care Brothers;
Northern View

Posted by: Northern View at November 25, 2004 05:47 AM

I´m just posting what the president of the US says. He probably says those things for a reason.
Bush acts like he's nuts, talks like he's nuts and therefore he probably is nuts.
The more people who realize this the faster the dollar will tank and the sooner Bush's war funding will dry up.

Posted by: Grizzly at November 25, 2004 08:03 PM

I live in Canada, which doesn't mean I'm Canadian. Which doesn't mean I like either beer or hockey. Which doesn't mean I spend the winters with my satellite TV --I have never owned a TV.
It means that I have spent my life witnessing US foreign policy enslave and enrage peoples around the world. I have watched the unbridled greed of your corporate elite produce the media propaganda machine that has for 20 years dumbed your population and ours beyond the wildest dreams of the nazis. I have watched your global wealth corrupt the simpering cock-sucking piss-pants that we seem to produce locally for politicians.
Now I am wondering what happened to the "we the people" ? You no longer deserve to be in possession of the US Constitution, truly a great document. Only you american peoples can take back your commonwealth. But you must have the courage of Ukrainians first. When I was a child I was told that America was a great ally. As a student of History I learned how false that picture was. Now I am ashamed and fearful to live next door to your country. It is only a matter of time before you come north with your war machine, either for our oil, our water or something else...or even just to shut up people like me who disagree with you. Take the power back from the tyrants and thieves that have disenfranchised you all...look to the Ukrainians for courage. You must disempower those morons in your south who would destroy the basis of Liberty by removing the wall between church and state. The rest of the world cannot do it for you.

Posted by: cringing canuck at November 26, 2004 06:40 PM

To northern view: sorry but owning a gun to protect your FREEDOM does matter! any person that is for banning guns is uninformed! and our guns are our liberty Teeth , life preserver! I wish the Jews like escape from sobibor and the american Indian had more guns.
Remember govt employees "WILL NOT WORK FOR FREE"
THINK ABOUT IT. PICTURE A POLICE STATE WHERE THE TYRANNICAL GOVT CANNOT PAY IT'S JACK BOOTED THUGS? WOULD YOU WORK FOR FREE?? I THINK NOT!

I DO NOT WORRY ABOUT WHAT I SAY ON THE INTERNET AS MOST OTHER POSTERS "ARE NOT AFRAID" EITHER!
"WE THE PEOPLE" ARE "BORN" WITH "NATURAL RIGHTS"!
GOVT. DOES "NOT" GIVE US THOSE RIGHTS THEYRE HERE TO DEFEND AND PROTECT THOSE RIGHTS! We are Born with Freedom and We must constantly defend our freedom. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!!

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO WARN WORLD CITIZENS , CANADIANS , AMERICANS ,ETC THAT ALL OUR CURRENCIES ARE FRAUD WORTHLESS CURRENCIES AND THAT WE ALL USE OIL AND THE DAYS OF CHEAP ENERGY ARE OVER. ALL OF OUR COUNTRIES NEED CHEAP ENERGY TO GROW - EXPAND OUR ECONOMIES & WITHOUT IT OUR ECONOMIES WILL FALTER AND SLOW DOWN.
I have the right to warn all world citizens that all countries citizens are way too deep in personal debt.

TO cringing canuck : BLAME CANADA! AT LEAST WE HAVE "FREEDOM OF PRESS" IN CANADA YOU DO "NOT"! HAVE FREEDOM OF PRESS! canada regulates what press writes in books. we dont in america.
WE CAN OWN GUNS HERE IN AMERICA! YOU BAN GUNS!
SO WHO IS FREE? I know many Brave canadians died for freedom in WW1 & WW2 But for some reason Canadian Govt. is not as Freedom loving as THE BILL OF RIGHTS! YES MANY AMERICANS AND CANADIANS MAY BE ASLEEP TO THE FACT THAT THEIR CURRENCY IS PAPER FIAT FRAUD SO-CALLED MONEY "BUT" THEY STILL BELIEVE IN FREEDOM OF SPEECH, PRESS, RELIGION, RIGHT TO PROTEST, & REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES - COMPLAIN! I CAN CALL THE U.S. PRESIDENT AND SENATOR KERRY IGNORANT DUMBASSES AND NOT GET ARRESTED. IF YOU CALL THE QUEEN AN ASSHOLE YOU WILL BE ARRESTED! SO NOW WHO'S THE MORE FREE COUNTRY! sorry but if you debate Freedom with me CAPTAIN FREEDOM YOU WILL LOSE! I TELL THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH IS A GLOBAL GREAT DEPRESSION IS COMING AND I DONT CARE WHAT NATIONALITY YOU ARE YOUD BETTER START GETTING PREPARED FOR IT. SADLY MOST WORLD CITIZENS ALLOWED THEIR POLITICIANS TO PILE UP MASSIVE UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT. THEY ALLOWED THEIR POLITICIANS TO CONVERT THEIR CURRENCY FROM REAL MONEY TO FRAUD FIAT CURRENCY SO THEY COULD BORROW MORE THAT THEIR ECONOMY HAD- ALLOWED. ITS NOW COMING BACK TO HAUNT THEM. WORLD CITIZENS ALSO GOT WAY DEEP INTO DEBT #1 BECAUSE THEY SAW THEIR GOVT. SPEND AND BORROW TO EXCESS SO THEY "THOUGHT" IT WAS OK? #2 THIR CURRENCY LOST VALUE EACH YEAR SO THINGS THEY ONCE COULD AFFORD TO BUY OUTRIGHT THEY NOW NEED TO BORROW TO BUY THEM THATS THE OTHER PROBLEM. WHATS SCARY NOW IS THAT SO MANY THINGS COST SO MUCH NOW THAT "MOST CITIZENS CANNOT AFFORD THEM" SO THIS GUARANTEES ECONOMIC DESTRUCTION. YOUD BETTER THINK HOW WOULD YOU LIVE THRU A GREAT DEPRESSION TWICE AS BAD AS 1930'S DEPRESSION. PICTURE YOUR KIDS STARVING IF YOU DO NOT PREPARE! I WISH YOU GOOD LUCK. I HOPE WORLD CITIZENS WAKE UP AND SEE WHATS COMING. YOUR POLITICIANS WILL "NOT" STOP THE WAY THEY DO THINGS, OVERSPEND AND EXCESSIVE BORROWING! LET PEACE AND FREEDOM RING FOR ALL!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 27, 2004 02:17 AM

P.S. afganistan's people beat Nuclear Giant Russia with its chemical biological , and
psycological weapons (LANDMINES) WITH GET THIS!

"FLINTLOCKS" I REST MY CASE!

Thank God for the ORIGINAL "BILL OF RIGHTS"!
Remember world citizens fighting for freedom
"your government can kill you only once! bullies , police state thugs , are wimps ,scared to death of people that say no and ask questions and fight back. the show their true color yellow and turn chicken and run. Remember tyrants bleed and can die just like us!! let freedom ring!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 27, 2004 02:30 AM

Oh Captain America,
beware King George's Men

They lurk in the shadows
and draw blood with their pens.

Posted by: Northern View at November 27, 2004 04:42 AM

CAPTAIN AMERICA ia a SUPER HERO with a Mighty Shield and RED , White , and Blue uniform.
I used to watch him when I was a kid. He's not as popular as Superman, Spiderman,& Batman . I used to like spiderman.

CAPTAIN FREEDOM IS A MAN THAT BELIEVES IN TRUE FREEDOM!"WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT THAT ALL MEN (WOMEN-PEOPLE) ARE CREATED EQUAL"! THE BILL OF RIGHTS 1ST 10 AMENDMENTS GUARANTEE OUR LIBERTY.

IM AGAINST SLAVERY, COMMUNISM ,FASCISM, TYRANNY, DICTATORSHIPS, AUTHORITARIANS,& HITLER, STALIN , SADDAM TYPES!

There are unfortunately way too many people in the world that think they have the right to tell their neighbor how to live. I do not care what you do in the privacy of your own home as long as you do not violate the natural rights of others. today many people (republicans) think they own your body "THATS SLAVERY", OR THEY THINK THEY OWN YOUR PAYCHECK- WALLET!(democrats) Thats stealing.

True FREEDOM means the right to be left alone!

Democrats think govt. controlled schools are good? because then "they control what your kids learn" like hitler youth, schoolkids wearing uniforms like communist schools. destroy the individual. do not ask questions, pay your taxes without comment.Dont ask what the money is being used for.all public schools must be abolished in america for freedom to survive.

Republicans are no better. republicans believe in slavery. thats dead wrong. Republicans think they own your body! If you own someone elses body thats slavery. Our F.D.A. wont even let terminally ill patients try test drugs even if theyre terminally ill and sign a waiver! I remember a woman crying pleading with our govt to allow her to try a test drug ! BUT NO! we havnt tested it. thats wrong. Republicans think they can tell americans what kind of sex they can have in the privacy of their own home including heterosexuals. republicans have banned the sale of vibrators,dildoes in states? why the hell do they care? republicans ban the worlds oldest profession ,prostitution ? they have wasted millions of dollars trying to stop something that is unstoppable. caveman probably gave a cavewoman a bronosaurus burger for sex 10,000 + years ago. If both adults are consentual whats the difference between a dinner , a movie ,dancing and drinks at a bar then back to their place for for a quickie as payment? republicans have banned non competition weighlifter from using steroids. Maybe its bad for your body but remember its your body not governments. republicans banned illegal drugs because of many reasons they dont want you to know. It makes them tons of money and its a jobs program. They make money confiscating everything you own also D.E.A. agents wouldnt have a job if they "RE-LEGALIZED DRUGS". They use the so-called war to ban Gang style guns like Tech-9's, and they use the war to violate the 4th amendment with no search warrant invasions of your home and unconstitutional "ROAD BLOCKS" all in the name of the war on drugs. The prohibition of alcohol failed and the prohibition of drugs is failing also. The black market and gang crime it produces is worse than the drug hurting someone body. Why arent alcohol and cigarettes illegal since they kill tons more people?The next thing our govt will outlaw are chocolate , fatty foods , and coffee caffiene!! The republicans think they own womens bodies related to abortion even if they were raped or incest. WHY? they want to make abortion illegal yet theyre against condoms also. make up your mind? people should know if you have sex it might result in a pregnancy? So republicans believe in slavery and thats wrong.
The patriot act is the result of the war on terror. It was designed to reduce your freedom but its all in the name of stopping terrorism? yhea give me a break! the patriot act is unpatriotic!

In closing the only important issue some people do not even bring up in their posts is
THE COMING NEW GREAT DEPRESSION WHICH IN A GLOBAL ECONOMY WILL BE WORLD WIDE. CANADA, CHINA EUROPE, ALL NATIONS WILL BE AFFECTED!!! DONT WORRY ABOUT ELECTIONS LIKE OUR RECENT ONE BETWEEN KERRY AND BUSH ITS TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT.
IT WOULD HAVE NOT MATTERED WHO WON BECAUSE THEY BOTH WOULD OVERSPEND,& OVERBORROW THIS COUNTRY INTO BANKRUPTCY!! WHAT WILL MATTER IN 5 TO 10 YEARS IS HOW WILL YOU FEED YOUR FAMILY AND HEAT YOUR HOME. I dont care if youre a dem. or repub. both get cold and hungry,and thirsty!. Think for yourself! our-your currencies in whatever country are losing their buying value. You can see people cannot afford to pay their bills today! One "MAJOR" reason is the Fiat currencies of the world!
ok heres most everones bills:

#1 mortgage or rent

credit card bills

Property taxes , sales taxes, Income taxes oh my!

power bill

water bill

trash bill

house phone bill ,cell phone ,internet bill,long distant phone bill, broadband, pager ,etc.

cable t/v or satellite t/v bill

Nat. gas heating Oil bill or L.p. gas
Cars gasoline bill,


Car payment ,car repairs ,oil changes, Tires(OIL)
FOOD BILL which is getting out of hand excessive
Clothing, coats for winter

school kids bills, college costs will become too much for most families to afford. say good bye!

health care costs which are out of control! some seniors have to decide buy prescription drugs or freeze? what a choice?

Life insurance costs

auto insurance - Mandatory in most states!

homeowners insurance - house repairs and upkeep

After all of these costs you still have others and these will be the ones you will cut out 1st when our govt. goes bankrupt and our currencies collapse.

Pet food , Vet visits, our pets will suffer also

Vacations ,airline tickets, gasoline for trips is becoming expensive and will only get worse

eating out, movies ,entertainment,sports events will become second to paying basic bills.

Furniture ,people will buy used, repair old ones

say good bye to certain appliances some use large amounts of energy. how will people afford new appliances in the shaky economic future?

2nd 3rd cars for your wife or kids , too costly

People will cut their own hair at home, salons will close

even your basic 6-pack , wine, alcohol will take 2nd place to feeding your family!

I can go on and on but look at YOUR BASIC BILLS
Which ones will you have to cut????? PEOPLE DONT REALIZE YOUR CURRENCY IS LOSING ITS BUYING VALUE SO FAST THAT "SOON- EVEN NOW" PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THEIR BASIC BILLS!!Think about it!

"WE THE PEOPLE" WILL SURVIVE BUT WE WILL HAVE TO CUT BACK "A LOT" A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN PEOPLE REALIZE I THINK. MORE THAN I REALIZE ALSO WHICH
IS SCARY.

SO "ALL THAT MATTERS IS OUR GLOBAL ECONOMY AND YOUR CURRENCY, OTHER ISSUES WILL BE 2ND & LESS IMPORTANT. I HAVE DEFENDED PEOPLES RIGHTS TILL IM BLUE IN THE FACE AND TODAY I REALIZE I WAS WASTING MY TIME IN THAT ALL THAT MATTERS NOW IS OUR ECONOMIES ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE AND HOW WILL WE SURVIVE AND SUPPORT OUR FAMILIES.
FOOD , CLOTHING AND SHELTER! SOON! THATS ALL THAT WILL REALLY MATTER!!! I RECOMMEND YOU PREPARE. PEACE AND FREEDOM FOR ALL . Good luck!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 27, 2004 06:35 AM

Mr. America;

I do not believe that anyone was the victor in the 1980's Afghan occupation, both sides ended up worse off - the Soviets bankrupt, and the Afghan's decimated.

I distinctly remember the propaganda of the time - the Soviets were portrayed as godless totalitarians, while the Afghan resistance (Radical Islam?) were portrayed as noble people who merely wanted to retain their "independence" and "religious freedoms." (Remember Rambo III and that Bond movie? You'll never see them on TV again)

American tax dollars went to fund the Taliban and the likes of Osama bin Laden who provided the Tyrants with another front from which to attack the Soviets during the Cold War.
The Tyrant's campaign against the Soviets was successful and the "Evil Empire" was left in ruins. Believe me, our tax dollars supplied the tribes of Afghanistan with better weapons than flintlocks.


Now twenty some years have passed and we are at war with Afghanistan and "Radical Islam". The seed the Tyrant had sown grew into a malignant tumour that turned on its host body. If the Tyrant would have chosen a "healthier lifestyle" we wouldn't be in this mess today. Unfortunately, the Tyrant stays in power by stuffing the faces of his greedy henchmen with the profits from war and global plunder - and almost all of us (including myself) serve the Tyrant's henchmen.

There is no democracy here, almost all of us do as we are told. The Materialist Tyrant state (corporate and government) guides our lives from cradle to grave. Those who serve the Tyrant well are rewarded with "stuff" and those who do not live in "poverty". Those who rebel end up in prison. Wealth, happiness, and prestige today are all based on how much "stuff" you have.
We slave to acquire more junk every day. It has become America's only reason to be.

This is how the Tyrant controls us; while we slave to acquire junk, we are too busy to even think about dissent.

I welcome the next Depression, let it free us from this bondage!


Posted by: Northern View at November 28, 2004 07:01 AM

Hi I do think youre right that afghanistan is a sad story but russia did finally have to leave.
WW1 and WW2 is sad and confusing because some countries in the 1st world war were our friends or enemies then in WW2 they were in reverse like japan , italy , turkey and others. The u.s. tried to help the afghans, and other countries by sending arms to them to stop communism , thru history and like the iran contra help they tried to cover it up so other countries didnt know and our own laws forbid help unless congress ok'ed it. America tried to help south korea ,west germany-berlin,. south vietnam, greneda ,el -salvador - nicaragua etc, to fight communism and the UN also helped in some of those conflicts. Im glad Saddam is out of power in Iraq but america cannot afford to police the world! Great Britain tried it and couldnt do it.
The sun never sets on the british empire! remember. Trying to help so many countries fight tyranny to achieve FREEDOM is too expensive. The constitution stated we were supposed to "DEFEND OUR SHORES" not the world.
We cannot afford it. The terror threat levels antiterrorism efforts are way too expensive. OF course I have to remember its paid for in Fiat Dollars that as of today dont have much worth anymore!
This country is a "REPUBLIC" never a democracy!
want proof? RECITE the PLEDGE of ALLIEGANCE to yourself "'AND to the REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS"! thank god this country is not a democracy! Majority rule? a lynch mob is majority rule. the majority used to think women should not vote and blacks should be slaves and different races should not marry! we elect our officials democratically but were not a democracy were a constitutional republic where "WE THE PEOPLE" are born with natural right. the BILL of RIGHTS!!! Many democrats and Republican officials incorrectly call this republic a democracy on purpose because they want average americans to believe they can majority vote away certain peoples rights!!!

PRES> BUSH violated the constitution BY sending troops to IRAQ in that originally only congress could send U.S. to war.
You know of "an act of WAR by congress -
remember WORLD WAR 2 when Pres. FDR says on radio after pearl harbor that an act of war has been declared by congress! Then somehow the war powers act was made giving any president up to 90 days to send troops wherever he wanted then after the 90 days congress could vote to have them leave-stop fighting.
That act gives our president way too much power and it makes him like a king .

"Clinton" also VIOLATED the constitution since act of war is made only by congress , only congress can send u.s.a. to war when Clinton sent troops to chech. bosnia serbia conflict.

Remember "WE THE PEOPLE" ARE THE BOSSES POLITICIANS ARE "PUBLIC SERVANTS" THEY WORK FOR US! Our REPRESENTATIVES ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT WHAT WE WANT IN CONGRESS AND THE SENATORS. If WE the PEOPLE want the u.s. to go to war then THEY THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH SHOULD DECIDE IF WE GO TO WAR with an act of congress NOT THE PRESIDENT EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

THE WAR POWERS ACT SHOULD BE ABOLISHED.

As ive said before I do not welcome the coming next Great Depression . But since our politicians recently proved they never change by voting a $800 BILLION dollar budget increase, our republic's politicians will continue to overborrow and overspend until our country is bankrupt and our currency is worthless.

IM A REALIST! The writing is on the wall . You can see all the signs of a collapse coming.

Our People will have to pay off their debt and our country will have to come up with a new currency that has real true VALUE ! not a currency that as the fed states HAS
"NO INTRINSIC VALUE" .Our people will have to make govt stop borrowing excessively or make money out of thin air. NOW BECAUSE OF OUR MASSIVE DEBT BUILDUP BECAUSE OF A CENTRAL BANK, THE FEDERAL RESERVE FRAUD MONEY, OUR REPUBLIC'S PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO LIVE THRU A
NEW DEPRESSION 2 THAT BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE DEBT WILL BE MUCH WORSE THAN 1930'S DEPRESSION. THE Increase in energy costs will also make the depression 2 be worse than 30's depression.

Whats sad is our children did not make this debt therefore they should "NOT" have to pay it. But theyre going to have to pay for it in another way. thru hardship and starvation , etc. its not fair.

I forgot to mention other everyday bills above:

Trash pickup bill

Fire insurance bill

Liability Insurance and business type insure.

sewer bill or septic bill every 10 years

Under entertainment TOYS!! may become second to FOOD!! thats sad!

so I do not wish to live thru a depression .Ive talked to too many seniors that lived thru 1930's and it sounded like a tough life!
Maybe after the countries of the world and its citizens pay off their debts and change their currencies to real money and find alternatives to oil for energy then maybe the world can come to order again! Freedom for all! good luck!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 28, 2004 10:07 AM

Captain Freedom, you don't really believe that you have a free press in the US of A ?? Nor do we here of course. I think our thoughts run parallel in many ways. Canada has for many decades been an extension of USA....yes the canadian wimps let the government take their guns; completely missing the point of having one and why it is a citizen's responsibility to possess one.

I do not blame anyone except the frivolous and stupid in both our countries, (de-facto one country)for it is they who elect morons and maintain them in power.

Posted by: cringing at November 28, 2004 05:41 PM

Captain America, so why does your "free press" not print Ruppert's accusations against Dick Cheney and Co. (ftw.org)? Is this guy a wacko? This man seems to have assembled a credible story that jives with the public record of actions. He apppears to have a distinguished record as a policeman and corporate crime invesigator. He appears to have assembled an impressive body of evidence and seeminly provides an example of cogent investigative journalism. Or is he a paranoid wacko?
But of course the public record is problematic.... Given that the voice of res publicos is a matter of ongoing interpretation and this very activity is the lifeblood of a democratic polity, I can accept that.

Without the benefit of living in America to hear its voice on the street, Canadians must get it from the net or pan for dust in the torrent of mainstream information rubbish, or take on authority the views of American friends and associates. Personally I recommend the dissertations of disinterested academics (difficult to find and assess)
I have heard that your health industry is second to none in the world -too bad most people cant have it/ Ours just sucks no matter who you are, but fortunately our politicians are going to overhaul it so they and the strata of society that spawned them don’t have to fly south every time they need to see a doctor.

It's my bet -not having prescient knowledge of future - that this forum and thousands like it, little rivulets of dissent, will dry up and vanish- having already been marginalized to ridicule by the power of the corporate state. One by one, as in Falluja today, dissent will be hunted to extinction in the streets and woods of America. Because they who prefer to think for themselves are a tiny minority and rationalization is an astonishingly seductive force. Whets a po' boy to do when the only jobs in town is brownshirt & regular, after all, gotta makealivin.

So much for the media. America's eventual tyranny was assured from the start because of media ownership -the voice of the polity cannot be a for-profit enterprise. In a truly democratic state -if such a thing could exist - the media and the franchise would be inviolably sacred and attempts to own either would lead to immediate and massive adjustment by any means necessary. Your materialistic creed of let each have the right to dominate the other in a zero-sum game of who can consume the most is another source of failure at the roots of your system, but I am no academic so I should not try open the can from which you pull communizts and socialism and those other islmevils

So Captain Freedom, at some level you have a responsibility to rally your countrymen -men and women of conscience (opposed to Christian tyrants) - America must rise and call its government out into the street. You let the "moral majority" seize the rudder of your ship and they like drunken madmen are driving it upon the rocks.
Its time to thrash those bullies; they are not great in number, they never are, they rule by threat and gossip and crude manipulation.

"Washington knows it is unable to confront the real players in the world - Europe, Russia, Japan, and China. Thus it seeks to remain politically on top by bullying minor players like the Axis of Evil, or even more minor players like Cuba. "
"Thus American attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq simultaneously reveal both the sophistication of US military technology and the inherent frailties of the US geopolitical position. Theatrical militarism has the dual purpose of projecting the image of American invincibility and might while maintaining or extending US military domination over resource-rich third-tier nations. This largely explains the {...} 'invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.' The strategy suggests that terrorist acts against the US should be covertly encouraged as a justification for more domestic repression and foreign military adventures. "
http://www.museletter.com/archive/Pepe%20Escobar#Pepe%20Escobar

But you must first have the courage of Ukrainians. Beware lest you wait too long....Its much worse here in Canada, because Canadian's sickening lick-up posture was entrenched decades past and is now monolithic, there is nothing sacred here and no real voice of dissent - we have no Declaration of Independence – THE great document -and no responsibility to bear arms and there is no mass attractor in our public life - you have foreign & domestic policies that are brazenly fascist for gods sake! - we have no foreign policy at all. The little country that never was. /
We’re like the neighbours who time and again witness the basher next door beat his wife and kids and every day we shovel his walk wearing a goofy smile. Then we affect shock and indignation when the fuzz come to collect the bloodied bodies.

Or is it way too late and is more sensible to run from the tottering ruins of your civilization? Many of us hope the American Dream (essence of the original version, not in panacolor or technovision) is still alive and sacred in the backrooms and byways of your great nation; we hope against all that you are secretly plotting in a thousand places the quick despatch of lil' Shrub (IQ90-man) and his minions in the regime of darkness and that again America will light a beacon of liberty on bleak horizons.

So what does all this have to do with the FED? Welll, its all about the money isn't it. The solution is there in front of you. Seize the state. Ship your leaders unarmed to the countryside of Iraq or the west bank or South America or Central America or Africa and let them run for their miserable lives ....see how long they last....put up a reality tv show around it and make book on it.

It has recently been said that when the superbloc of Russia, EEC, OPEC, India, China, Venezuela, Brazil, and others punt the US$ from the petronomic equation in the very near future, US will be a third world country overnight. Your government -as you have noted- is complicit and seems to invite this result. The Depression is around the corne? you bet! Will America -exposed and destitute- resort to massive military (read nuclear first use)? Seems likely. Your creepy zealous leaders and their elite super-wealth supporters will likely have you (and the rest of us) in the dark ages before 2005 is through.

With the money America has spent on arms in a quarter century, humanity could've colonized moon and mars and eradicated most of earth's persistent problems. The problem today is way larger than your fed and the fall of your country.

For shame, thinking of running away. You have the weapons, you have the documents....well?

Posted by: CDN spectator at November 29, 2004 12:20 AM

The world is a baffling place today where double-speak and paradox abound. Let me provide a few examples that are truly baffling.

(1) The Christian "Right". What does this mean?
I have read the Bible and the New Testament is all about sharing, loving and forgiveness. How has Christianity become "Right" when it is a truly "Left" leaning religion?

(2) WAR IS PEACE : This is the message we are getting today, we get peace by killing our enemies. We are sooo much safer without Saddam.

(3) Sustainable Development : The economy will forever expand even though the world's resources are finite.

(4) Oh one of my favorites - "Freedom isn't free" OK then FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

(5) IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Yes, the State's strength does come from the ignorance of its people. Not really a paradox to me, but I had to include it as the third and final slogan of "1984".


And everyday we all are pounded by this onslaught of lies, from the State megaphone and from the State's people. And if the Tyrant tells us that 2+2=5 then we will "rationalize" it until it does.

Many here have been speaking about the people of Ukraine, how they show courage in their "right for self determination". Don't you understand?
They determine nothing, this entire episode is merely a battle for Tryantial influence - who gets to tell the Ukrainians what to do - the West or the Russians? It's the duelling megaphones, and if the loudspeakers fail, believe me, the tanks will roll, just as they did in Tianemen Square.

And any fool that was really in the game for freedom will be crushed or sent to the THOUGHT POLICE.

Welcome to my World

Posted by: Northern View at November 29, 2004 09:38 AM

Hi , Northern View had a good comment - warning in that its true today that "1984" is becoming true in many ways!

Relating to DEPRESSION 2'S COMING ECONOMIC CRISIS "IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" When I mention to people about our dollar losing its buying value, the discussion is always well thats just inflation yet Fed. Reserve consumer price index calculator disproves that. During the gold std from 1924 to 1964 inflation was .77 cents in forty years then from 1964 to 2004 the increase is $6.04 DOLLARS.Thats almost 8 times more (7.9)

Ive had people discuss the "Dollar" and think its still backed by gold!! Most americans do not think it mattered that in 1964 our govt stopped making our coins out of silver! Most americans think the "FEDERAL RESERVE IS A PART, BRANCH OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY USE THE WORD
"FEDERAL"! THIS ALONE SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL TO ACT LIKE AN IMPOSTER OR USE WORDS THAT CONFUSE PEOPLE INTO BELIEVEING THE FEDERAL RTESERVE IS A BRANCH - DEPT OF THE UNITED STATES GOVT.
The FED> is no more Federal than FEDERAL EXPRESS
, ALSO I meet a lot of confused people who believe its good? that the FED - Greenspan sets & regulates interest rates. Individual banks in a capitalist soceiety should be able to set their own rates not the fed.! Noone cares that our Fed. is never audited at least not honestly .
so "IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" IN RESPECT TO WHAT "LITTLE" AMERICANS TRUELY KNOW ABOUT THEIR OWN FED RESERVE BANK AND THEIR "CURRENCY"! THEY TRUELY KNOW VERY LITTLE AND THATS PART OF THE PROBLEM. In 1964 when the u.s. govt. went from "LAwFul Money" a United States Silver Certificate redeemable in silver to a Federal Reserve Note Fiat lie,Fraud redeemable in nothing money. American citizens must have been "very trusting" in 1964-5 when these "new" notes came out and the govt. said they were basically the same thing and worth the same basically. How asleep were we as citizens then??
Just think of it. I was a baby then but If I had been an adult I would have protested the change.
I do not see much in history texts of people complaining of the change? Ignorance is strength
is true.
The Good News is the lie currency they thrust upon us then is collapsing now and soon they will have to restore a lawful currency with intrinsic value redeemable in silver or even copper. americans are finally starting to realize their 1 dollar does not buy shit anymore!I still meet people and family who think social security can be saved. Wishful thinking I guess? I know I will never see mine and ive put enough in for decades . americans somehow still trust that our govt, congress , president can reduce spending and BALANCE THE BUDGET?
"THE BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT" IS A GOOD IDEA BUT ALSO IN TODAYS TIME ITS A JOKE. iT MUST HAVE BEEN A RUSE- LIE TO FAKE OUT U.S. CITIZENS INTO BELIEVEING OUR GOVT WAS ACTING RESPONSIBLY? IT WOULD NEVER HAD WORKED BECAUSE OUR CENTRAL BANK DEBT BASED CURRENCY SYSTEM DEPENDS & THRIVES ON DEBT. If everyone paid off their debts there would be no money-economy!

Id like to hear other peoples stories about how you respectfully discuss that our govt is deep in debt and that our currency is in trouble and most people dont care or worry. so that makes the point that history repeats itself.
american citizens and world citizens are ignorant to the fact that their FIAT CURRENCIES ARE WORTHLESS! since they have forgotten history they shall relive it, like the 1930's and weimar and other depressions in history .people today are sooooo asleep and their currency is about to bite them in the ass! my god I cant even think how "MAD AS HELL" people are going to be when their social security checks bounce and medicare fails and it takes $20.00 for a loaf of bread or $10.00 a gallon gas or gallon milk $10.00 dozen eggs, $20.00 everthing even now when you go to the food store it takes more money than most people have to buy what you really want! what will it be like in 2010?
I wouldnt want to be a politician then! do they still Tar and feather?
Theres way too many govt camera's in cities just like 1984 t/v watching everything you do!

The "THOUGHT POLICE" PART IS WHAT SCARES ME!
Its already happening.
"HATE CRIME LEGISLATION is wrong - bad is like a 1984 thought crime it should not be illegal to hate something but if you beat someone up thats assault which is illegal,& murder is illegal also.
I like the 1984 Movie with John Hurt and Richard Burton {his last film} boy its good and as scary as a monster movie. more even because parts of it are coming true!
I do think america is safer that SADDAM is out of power . He did have a part in the 1993 Trade center parking lot bombing that luckily failed.
If saddam had gotten a nuke and could have put it on a cargo ship he hated u.s.a. because of persial gulf 1 1990-1 that he would have blown up a port city without remorse care. he would have been happy. The problem is that most of the hijackers on sept/11 were "SAUDI"S not Iraqi's why didnt we invade SAUDI Arabia??? also he invaded Iraq without an
"ACT OF WAR FROM CONGRESS" WE WENT TO IRAQ BECAUSE OF THE DOLLAR BEING REPLACED BY THE EURO AND BECAUSE BUSH MUST HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THE U.N. illegally trading food for OIL! and He wanted a foothold in the oil region, and he wanted to finish what his father did not. oust saddam! actually theres many reasons. Did the C.I.A. give him false bad info, sadly we will never know even though we the people have a right to know clause in the constitution!

Anyway we have to live it the reality of the current situation, todays timeline. our currency is losing value in goods and services, our citizens are asleep at least most of them to the dollar collapsing and asleep to the "MASSIVE DEBT of our Govt and ITS People.Im beginning to believe its too late to warn others to prepare it almost is. it takes 1 year or a few years to truely prepare for whats coming unless youre rich.

Well soon theyre going to get a wake up call. Maybe monday 11/29/2004

Its "SCARY TO SEE ASLEEP WORLD CITIZENS SHOPPING FOR PRESENTS WHEN THEY SHOULD BE BUYING STORAGE FOOD, BARTER ITEMS, PAYING OFF DEBT, GOLD SILVER ,DOWNSIZING AND BASICALLY GETTING PREPARED FOR THE DEPRESSION 2 THATS COMING"! ITS TRUE THE 2ND GREAT DEPRESSION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED! ITS A JOKE WATCHING CNN/FN, MSN, FOX, ETC. TALK ABOUT SOMEHOW THE DOLLAR WILL BE SAVED AND OUR GOVT WILL SOMEHOW PAY OFF ITS DEBT. I WOULD LAUGH IF IT WASNT FUNNY.ITS SAD.

I do Recommend do not overspend this holiday, do try to prepare for whats coming because you do not have much time left. It could happen this week and definately by 2008-10 thats only 4 years. good luck!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 29, 2004 01:27 PM

I advise all of you to read more of Silvio Gesell.
He advocated in the 30's a "free money".
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/Welcome.html#english

His idea is simple, the main reason for booms and bust is that people holding vast amount of cash (call them rich people) are looking for an interest on it.
If they do not get it, they just store the cash. (whatever its form : gold, bank notes, electronic money).

So his simple idea is creating a money who automatically loses value each single day.
This way, people are forced to use it, or lend it.

Read more.

And please be sure of one thing, Gold can not replace paper money, nor provide any firm basis to economic policy.
Booms and busts are the result of human psychology and social organisation. People tend to dream of a wonderful future and then refuse to see the facts that deny the likelihood of this future ... Until it his too late, and they turn pessimistic, seeing everything in bad ... Denying improvements ... That is the source of cycles.
And gold is no solution to it.

Free market is the problem. Not the solution. Free market supports manias. Manias are a free market thing.

Posted by: Dubreuil at November 29, 2004 02:03 PM

My thought of the day:

Modern Capitalism is the system where the people pay for a problem, and then pay even more to solve that problem.

Examples:

Mc Donalds and Weight Watchers

U.S.A Corp. and Osama bin Laden

Exxon and Exxon l.o.l

General Motors and the Department of Transportation

Freedom of the press and the Patriot Act

And some call this "progress"

Ha


Posted by: Northern View at November 29, 2004 11:42 PM

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH !!!!!
SO! GOLD cannot replace paper money??? sorry but youre wrong!
"ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND" Didnt you mean:)
PAPER CANNOT REPLACE GOLD! theyre trying that now and thats one "MAJOR REASON" why our PAPER Fiat Currency is collapsing its redeemable in nothing!! Even after the Roman Empire collapsed their Gold and Silver coins were still being used How much will your "paper dollars " be worth when the american empire falls & goes under
, you can still use them to make a fire or use them for toilet paper! or neat wallpaper. since they hold no real value if {when} our govt. goes under.
Paper , and cotton are a renewable resource not rare ,
Gold is a finite resource and scarce on this planet thats why its rare. I wonder how much gold is on the moon & the other planets {just curious}
Some posters to D2 t/v show their ignorance and try to call realists idividuals with minds of their own that dont blindly believe everything that govt. tells them as pessimists.
The truth is out there even our govt has released info to our future economic crisis. Bush is going to try to cut our social security and cut benefits in many dept of govt. when they cannot borrow any more and when our currency nosedives! Govt will panic soon when they cannot pay their bills. Bush is going to ask for more money for the iraq war soon. you can count on it. Next spring 2005 Oil will go to $60 to $80 dollars a barrel or spring 2006 because of 2 reasons, #1 the dollar is devaluing so it will take more $ to buy 1 similar barrel today. #2 world demand for oil increases each year and increase in demand from china , india will make the world demand surpass supply and soon.
wow its so damn easy to go to many different oil websites and oil companies statistics and you can see new well discoveries since the 1960's have declined, yet world demand keeps going up.
I recently caught the news lying about just how much oil was in alaska anwr . They said it might be as much as 10 years when numerous sites estimate it at 1/2 to 2 years tops. they should save that for when other wells in the world run dry. People do not realize just how much oil is used in the production of FOOD! america in 10 - 20 years will need that oil for food production.. also the news fails to tell watchers that even if they went up ther and started to make well base it would be many years before we see any barrels of it!
The fact that our govt is bankrupt thus our currency is worthless is almost not as scary as living without cheap energy. Our global economy "will suffer" and "NOT" grow without cheap readily available energy . our Debt based central bank the Fed reserve will not survive without economic growth and "expensive energy "is going to stop them! all countries economies will suffer by higher energy costs. this is a reality now $50.00 a barrel is hurting the airline industry ,auto sales , and christmas sales are so-so because the reason explained is shoppers are paying more in increased energy costs so they are shopping LESS!

The 2ND GREAT DEPRESSION is really starting to pick up steam and each year it will grow exponentually faster. I suggest Enjoy the abundance if youre already prepared because in a few years it will be harder and more expensive to find and buy certain rare extravagant foods ,clothing .wine, long airline flights { added fuel costs}, vacations, gold ,energy efficient items everyone will want them at the same time.
I wish you good luck!

Posted by: CAPTAIN FREEDOM at November 30, 2004 11:07 AM

MMMMmmmm, everybody in the media saying the same thing: The US dollar will be cheaper tomorrow. Alan Greenspan shares the same opinion, and spreads this opinion to the media ,who love and cheer him.

This way Alan Greenspan continues fighting deflation. He needs higher prices to make possible the only thing that can stop the impending economic disaster: to rise rates to bring down debt levels slowly.

If the rates are not rised, the excess of debt and liquidity will make the future deflation more severe.

I am not sure that the US$ will collapse soon. First I think the dollar will soar when liquidity starts to fail, if rates are raised, or even if rates are not raised, if debt levels continue mounting and the demand for dollars goes higher.

Debt levels will continue mounting in the foreseeable future because the american people have been convinced that spending more is the way a patriot behaves when the country needs everyone´s cooperation. This habit of excess of spending has deep roots. Few things have changed since deflation fears arised two years ago, money continues being a cheap product, never a thing to think about hoarding it, who would want to hoard something destined to lose value?

Posted by: Nineu at December 1, 2004 12:31 AM

Hi Nineu, nice to see you back.

Yep.
Deflation is probably at the corner.
And there's nothing central banks can do about it.

This is a global economy.
The USA can and must devaluate, so they'll import some inflation...
But the effect on the rest of the world will be clearly deflationist : reduced demand for exports, excess capacities (and lower prices of US products)...

The problem is excess debt. Debt flows from savers - producers to consumers.
It flows within countries : companies are eager for profit, instead of lowering prices or raising wages, they have increased their lending to consumers. (no increase in real wages, increase in consumer debt)
It flows from exporting countries (Asia) to importing countries (USA).

These flows of debt have increased at a higher pace than the pace of the global economy and each national economy. (increasing debt/revenue ratio)

This flow of debt brings a flow of newly available money. (Money creation is the other side of debt expansion)

There are increasing risks of bankrupcy, therefore these flows have to slow, they need to stop increasing or to increase at a slower pace than the economy ...

Because of reduced flows of debt there will be reduced demand, excess capacities, pressure on prices deflation.
Because of reduced flows of debt, there will be reduced money creation, less cash available, again deflation.
You can count on a depression. And reducing the ratio debt/revenue in a period of decreasing revenue (depression) ... is even harder.
You can count of falling asset prices, and therefore increased ratios debt/assets. Increased risks of bankrupcy.

There is very little central banks can do about this. If there is too much debt around, no money creation is possible.
Ex. The usual way to create money for the US central bank is to buy US bonds.
Now imagine, that there is a reduced confidence in the US hability to repay its debt. Imagine this reduced confidence is so great that the US government pass policies leading to a budget surplus (or for the matter to reduced deficits) ... How will the central bank create money ?

Posted by: DF at December 2, 2004 11:11 AM

What have in common the 1930s and this new millenium in the USA ?. Debt levels , above 300 % of GDP now, higher than ever.

Excessive debt levels are deflationary and must sooner or later be reduced. Nobody knows when a debt ceiling will be reached, but with a steady mounting debt no matter how much time you expend making this travel, you will end always in the same place: you name it "debt deflation".

High debt levels are linked with credit booms (and bubbles created after several booms) and excess of optimism. You´ll never see a market bottom with so little fear and with debt levels soaring like they are today or like they were even two years ago, unless you think that debt can be larger always irrespective of the amount of this debt the economy bears. Greenspan can make the trick once (he made it several times in the 1990s) to spur growth and sustain a credit bubble. During the recession of 1990 debt was not reduced, only halted. Every subsequent crisis has been solved pumping more liquidity. But there´s no way to reflate steadily in a heavy debt level environment, once deflation starts to hit, unless you start to reduce debt.

How to explain to the american citizenry that reducing debt is the right thing to do just now?. Few months back the opposite notion was promoted by the Fed.

Inflation NOT ALWAYS can stop deflation, sometimes only can delay it to make it worse later.

History will teach us if the Fed is powerful enough to defeat deflation, this is to say if the market can always be defeated by the Fed.

Posted by: Nineu at December 2, 2004 08:39 PM

I have had the advantage these past few years of having no interest whatsoever into the inner machinations of economis and the FED and etc. However, I am a wary person and naturally suspicious. So I educated myself as best I could about fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and etc.

My advantage of looking at this problem from a simple view has lead me to believe there in fact WILL be another depression, and soon to come at that.

You business model analysts, accountants, crackerjack moneymen and bankers have missed the point entirely in your pursuit of formulas and statistics and bar graphs. You've been looking at the fine print so long that you've totally ignored the headlines.

There WILL be a great depression because it has been orchestrated to happen. Not by mere chance, or mistake or voodoo. It's going to happen because the liquidity of the middle class will make the pockets of the new world kings swell with treasure.

It will happen because nearly all of America, and much of the rest of the world, has been enslaved.

When Pharaoh Ramses told his slaves to make bricks without straw, they got down on their hands and knees and collected chaff to appease their master. They didn't do it because of political reasons, or social reasons or economic reasons. There were no murmurings or whisperings of treason or uprising, even though the request was ludicrous. Men didn't plot and plan how long they might be able to sustain this new way or working with suitcases full of empirical evidence and scientific extrapolations. There was no Wall Street, no Nightly Business Report with Paul Kangas.

They did it because being a slave was all they had ever known, and there simply wasn't anything else to do. Root, hog, or die. And most of them died.

The upcoming Depression will happen because Americans don't know how to be free anymore. Being a slave is all they understand, and that's why it WILL happen.

Middle Class America is a fruit ripening on the tree. Come the end of the "growing" season, they, you and I, all of us hanging together; will be harvested.

The only clear thinking men I see posting to these forums are the ones calling for an immediate armed insurrection.

Now all we need is a Moses.

Posted by: I am Jack's Revolutionaries at December 17, 2004 04:43 PM
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